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TOPIC: Question regarding applying audio effect

Question regarding applying audio effect 19 Jul 2020 21:46 #108819

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Hi,

I am a little bit confused about the HUD (i.e. "Advanced Effect Editor UI"):

When I select just 1 clip, it works fine. However, it is disabled when I select multiple clips in the timeline.

I tried "Detach Audio". But still, the HUD is grayed out as long as I have multiple clips selected.

My questions are:
1. How should I UPDATE the effect for audio in multiple clips? Say, after I trim, delete, re-order the clips in the timeline, and I would like to batch-update the existing effects.
2. AFAIC, updating the effects for one clip, copy, and "cmd + shift + v" (i.e. Paste Attributes) to other clips is the workaround that I can think of. Normally I'd zoom out to select those remaining clips or select those from the "Index Panel" to the left of the timeline. Any other better way to do this?
3. Or maybe, creating a compound clip will be better? Since I am relatively new to video editing, I am not quite sure about the actual use case of the compound clip. Will compound clip help in this case? And will compound clips take more space on the hard drive?
4. I heard about the "video adjustment layer" technique. Just wondering, is there an "audio adjustment layer" in Final Cut Pro?

To summarize, I think my question could be interpreted as "how should I keep sync of audio effects in different clips"

Thanks in advance! 🙏
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Question regarding applying audio effect 21 Jul 2020 12:02 #108856

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When using those huds, you can only open it for one clip at a time, period. If I have this situation, I always use Compound Clips.

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Question regarding applying audio effect 21 Jul 2020 22:40 #108870

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As FCP.guru said: HUD only works for one clip at a time. It also doesn't update to a different clip when you select a different clip in the timeline. The open HUD is still showing the settings of the first clip.

Yes compound works. No more hard disk use in terms of media as this is a 'virtual' clip. I though minimise the use of compounds as much as possible. Not only because your timeline becomes less 'transparent' to what are the actual clips in it (always need to open compound to see) plus it creates unnecessary complexity in the database. But if it the last thing you do to the edit then of course it is a good option to use compounds to apply one effect to multiple clips at once.

So solutions are of course the copy and paste attributes method you mentioned.

Another method I use a lot is to actually store the effect(s) in a preset. Add and adjust effects. In the bottom right of the inspectors pan is a button to create the preset containing all applied effects and the their current settings. In the dialogue popping up give it a name and best create a new category, eg. my presets. Now next time you highlight all the clips you want your preset to be applied to, go to the effects browser and select your new category, then double click on your preset and all clips get this preset applied. The good thing is that the preset still applies the original set of individual effects with the settings you enter at the time you save the preset, so that you can still change only eg. the compressor for individual clips if you need to.

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Question regarding applying audio effect 23 Jul 2020 06:20 #108892

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Got it! Thanks a lot for your answer.
And I do have several other questions if you don't mind.
I am working mostly on screencast editing. So there won't be too many clips in one project library, but each of them is pretty lengthy.
Normally, I would try adjusting or adding effects to the audio before I even started editing. But so far, sometimes I will come back to "enhance" the audio again after I am done editing.
That said, should I always edit first, and work on the audio later on before exporting? What's your recommendation?
Also, do you happen to have any recommendations for screen recording apps? Is ProRes codec important when it comes to screen recording? I am evaluating iShowU for now, and it supports ProRes output, which I'd consider it a plus.

Thanks.

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Question regarding applying audio effect 23 Jul 2020 06:30 #108893

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Thanks a lot for your detailed answer. This has been really helpful!
It's good to know that it doesn't take extra space on the hard disk, but I do agree that compound clips somehow "flood" the Library/Event.
And yes, I did use the "Save Effects Preset". And for new clips, I did apply the preset to all clips. But the thing is, sometimes I do need minor tweaks (well, maybe just little bit on EQ, Limiter or Compressor) for a specific screencast, due to my "flaky" recording environment 😂

As I mentioned in the previous reply, there might be a chance of improvement in my workflow.
Also, if you don't mind, please take a look at the question in my reply above, and kindly let me know your thoughts. Thanks again!

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Question regarding applying audio effect 24 Jul 2020 12:09 #108913

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Audio should be the last thing you do, absolutely. I use compound clips all the time to group audio for mixing, sweetening, mastering. CCs are only an issue if you have dozens of them. And yes, you do need to eventually do little tweaks.

In situations where I can't really put all that audio in one CC, like if they're all spread out down the timeline, that's when I will do a copy of the clip I just tweaked audio for, select the rest of the clips (I do a search in Timeline Index to select them all at once easily), Remove Attributes, then Paste Attributes. Very fast, very easy. Learn the shortcuts for those commands if you do this a lot.

This shows the desperate need for FCPX to get an actual mixer, with buses, like other NLEs have. IMHO this is FCPX's weakest link it its workflow.

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Question regarding applying audio effect 25 Jul 2020 22:42 #108931

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FCPX.guru wrote: Audio should be the last thing you do, absolutely. I use compound clips all the time to group audio for mixing, sweetening, mastering. CCs are only an issue if you have dozens of them. And yes, you do need to eventually do little tweaks.

In situations where I can't really put all that audio in one CC, like if they're all spread out down the timeline, that's when I will do a copy of the clip I just tweaked audio for, select the rest of the clips (I do a search in Timeline Index to select them all at once easily), Remove Attributes, then Paste Attributes. Very fast, very easy. Learn the shortcuts for those commands if you do this a lot.

This shows the desperate need for FCPX to get an actual mixer, with buses, like other NLEs have. IMHO this is FCPX's weakest link it its workflow.


Much appreciated! I think I may try a new workflow like this next time:
1. Edit (trimming, cutting, re-ordering, etc.)
2. Separate Audio
3. Create a compound clip
4. Set the volume, effect, EQ, etc. (well I do have a preset for it)
5. Export

IMHO it shouldn't be a problem if I separate audio out from the main "storyline" and create a compound clip for audio processing, right?
My only concern is that, well, this might not be how Magnetic Timeline was supposed to use? 😂
My assumption is that, even if I create a compound clip w/ video and audio (i.e. w/o separating audio), it should still work.

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Question regarding applying audio effect 26 Jul 2020 00:48 #108934

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Firstly I do not know anything about screen rec software as I do not do this. Sorry :-)

For audio mixing I think your problem will always have some complexity to it because you're working with originally long clips that sometimes need different treatment for diff sections. So applying one effect setting to the original covers you maybe only 80% of the time. So I do not think there is the silver bullet that makes everything just a matter for '3 clicks and I'm done'.

I would not do what you suggested and that is separate audio and then compound what you need to treat as one. Separating audio is for me always the last resort because it all is ok if you never change anything in the edit, but what happens if you need to? FCPx doesn't have sync indicators so how do yo know you didn't throw audio out of sync by mistake?
I also strongly disagree with FCP.guru about the need of an 'audio mixer' in FCPx. I think Apple would be crazy to do so. My hope is that they don't because they actually already have a mixer built in and that is called 'Roles'.

I think here is actually your best bet to streamline your work a little more (with limitations as mentioned before because of the nature of your projects). Look into using roles as a way to help organise your audio better.

Without writing a lengthy reply I wouldn't be able to fully explain the power and opportunities using roles to organise your edit. Here is one simple example. In a 'normal' edit your clips might have roles like 'dialogue' effects, music. You might create subroles in the dialogue role like: Lisa, Fred, Maria. You do your edit. While editing you can switch the timeline to display audio lanes to see what audio has what role and to maybe change roles for certain clips. Once you finish the edit you select all clips and make one compound out of your your whole timeline. Now you switch again to audio lanes and make subroles visible and voila you can now apply one effect to e.g. all 'Lisa' role clips in one go, no matter where they are in the timeline. And here comes the kicker: Need to change the edit, go into the compound, make your changes, go bake to your project and all effects are still applied the same. The only thing you might need to adjust is the changed length of your compound clip in the timeline because you lengthened or shortened the edit. Here is your mixer FCPx style :-)

Now how to use roles in your case might need a different approach. The thing to know is this important detail: Roles in the timeline/project and roles in the event are independent, meaning even if you decide in the beginning to give your clip a certain role in the event, you can change that once it is in the project/timeline! And you can give every instance of a clip in your timeline/project a diff role. So you could create a role called 'screen rec', and then create subroles for 'Lisa', 'Peter' etc (all speakers). Place your clip in the timeline, cut into into sections using the blade tool and then apply diff roles/subroles to the diff sections. This would allow you to (after compounding your whole edit into one) apply a compressor/limiter to the master role 'screen rec' and individual eq's to to every diff speaker in the subroles. FCPX no will mix all this together in this order: all subroles with their individual EQ's INTO the master role with the compressor/limiter INTO the whole compound where you might add a loudness effect INTO master output.

So roles are an independent organising and mixing tool. Read the manual about it and maybe look for some tutorials talking about roles. I'm still discovering possibilities (and sometime limitations) of this extremely powerful part of FCPx.

Hope that helps a little.
Cheers Carsten

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Last edit: by cofe. Reason: deletion

Question regarding applying audio effect 26 Jul 2020 01:11 #108935

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here 2 super rough clips to give you an idea about roles for your case:
www.dropbox.com/sh/rq84runf1o8j0s8/AACny...3yiu6_npLVGUEca?dl=0

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Last edit: by cofe.

Question regarding applying audio effect 26 Jul 2020 14:03 #108944

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Well Cofe, "My hope is that they don't because they actually already have a mixer built-in and that is called 'Roles'."

No, Roles is in no way, shape, or form anything like a real mixer. When you get complex audio in FCPX, you want a mixer. Many of us have been asking for a mixer with a master and buses for a very long time. No, FCPX Roles do not perform the function of a mixer, at all.

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Question regarding applying audio effect 26 Jul 2020 16:22 #108948

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I use Logic X for all the soundtracks.
Maybe it's a bit different from using FCX but it works for me.
When audio is simple I will use FCX.

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Question regarding applying audio effect 26 Jul 2020 23:28 #108953

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Maybe this for another thread to discuss :-)

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Last edit: by cofe. Reason: Mistakes

Question regarding applying audio effect 28 Jul 2020 06:04 #108980

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Albo wrote: I use Logic X for all the soundtracks.
Maybe it's a bit different from using FCX but it works for me.
When audio is simple I will use FCX.


For me, Logic X is actually a little bit overkill since I don't need those Pro features.
AFAIC, the audio functionality in FCPX should be enough for my workflow.
But thanks a lot for bringing this up.

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Question regarding applying audio effect 28 Jul 2020 06:19 #108981

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cofe wrote: here 2 super rough clips to give you an idea about roles for your case:
www.dropbox.com/sh/rq84runf1o8j0s8/AACny...3yiu6_npLVGUEca?dl=0


Hey Cofe. I can't thank you enough for your response. The screencast has been really helpful.
Since most of the time, it is just me presenting/recording, so I guess 1 role should be good enough. But there could be some sound effects or background music that I may include later on, which would be assigned under different sub roles for the sake of audio processing.
And it looks like compound clips are necessary at this point. Well, it doesn't hurt to have it, anyway 😄
Being able to select multiple audio clips within one click is definitely what I am looking for. I'll dig more into the "roles".
And again, thanks a lot for your effort!

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