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14 Nov 2020
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TOPIC: STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS?

STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 06 Apr 2020 18:49 #105952

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arc wrote:

As far as YouTubers doing whatever because they're too lazy or inexperienced to see how it's done to high standard, I don't care. There's good YouTube and bad YouTube. If the technical standard is too low, I tune out. If the execution sucks, I tune out. If the idea sucks, I tune out.


I am starting to think you collaborate with people that do animation but I am wonder what your level of involvement actually is. It would be nice to see what you can do on your own. As I stated we can have a simple contest with line animation, cut out animation or even stop motion animation. The choice is yours. A cell animation contest would be hard since most people don't have an Oxberry.


As a producer of stop motion animation for the past 35 years with companies including Vinton, Laika, Wild Brain, Colossal Pictures, Broadcast Arts, DreamQuest, as well as with my own company, FFAKE, yes, you could say I "collaborated" with animators. I am not a stop motion animator even though I've done plenty of stop motion animation. I hire stop motion animators who are way better than I could ever do. They are artists and I respect that. I have done every function on a stop motion set including lighting, camera, motion control, rigging, prop building, editing, rotoscoping, compositing and directing. I have worked on features, commercials, music videos, industrials and broadcast. I also produce all other forms of animation including cel (2D), CGI, mixed media. But I'm not a stop motion animator and don't pretend to be. I have worked with some of the best in the world, and I don't even attempt to be on their level. So it would tell you nothing for us to have a contest. But I will leave you with a picture of our Oxberry animation stand that we use for cut-out/ 2.5 D down shooter stuff. It was owned by Douglas Trumbull, creator of the slit-scan technique on 2001, among other things.
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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 06 Apr 2020 22:34 #105957

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PualG

Obviously I cannot show you the Oxberry, Steenbeck and lightbox I used in College. What I will say is all my animations came out awesome. My animation were probably the best in the class. Even the teacher and other students thought my projects came out the best. That is why I had not problem offering you the challenge even though I have not done stop motion animation in over 25 years.

I had a lot of fun in college and did all my animations prior to getting my first computer. Once I started buying programs like Bruce, Ray Dream Studio and Poser I never thought twice about ever using a Bolex camera. I never thought twice about doing line animations, cut out animation or even stop motion animation because I can do all that on the computer much easier. I am glad I worked with actual film and learned how to do things the old school way.

That being said I have output many 3-D animations to Blur-ray, DVD and VHS using Premiere Pro. I am sure you would agree 3-D animation does not need to be 24fps to output DVD. Do we agree on that? Do we both agree no computer animation needs to be 24 FPS to output to DVD or Blu-ray?

If I requested 3-D animation from your company at 59.99i your company could easily deliver it. Correct?

My favorite thing to do when I first got into 3-D animation was orbital pans using Bryce. I still like doing orbital pans.

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 06 Apr 2020 22:45 #105958

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Doesn’t matter what you output for DVD but when it’s encoded the only frame rates it can use are 24 or 29.97.

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 06 Apr 2020 22:46 #105959

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Arc - what is the frame rate that Pixar works at? 24fps. Sony? 24. Illumination? 24.

I can work at any frame rate a client wants. But generally, we work currently at 4K UHD 23.976. This is generally the preferred frame rate from my clients. I've only had one client request 29.97 in the last 5 years and that's because they're doing a documentary that started at that frame rate and they wanted the footage to integrate with that. Apart from that, nobody in the US is asking (me) for 30 (29.97) footage. No one is asking for 59.94. I don't work much with cinematics for games or stereo 3D stuff. Perhaps they want those frame rates for that work. In the feature/television space, 24p is still the prevalent frame rate. Do a survey.

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Last edit: by PaulG.

STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 06 Apr 2020 22:51 #105960

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Except of course for NBC, CBS, CNN, Fox, and all the affiliates.

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 06 Apr 2020 23:04 #105961

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Tom Wolsky wrote: Doesn’t matter what you output for DVD but when it’s encoded the only frame rates it can use are 24 or 29.97.


You are correct but you can drop 15 FPS, 30 FPS or even 60 FPS animations in the timeline. 60 FPS will obviously look smother.

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 06 Apr 2020 23:04 #105962

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Yea, OK. For TV content, sure. Cable and streaming services are a little different. OK, so 29.97 is not dead. ;-)

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 06 Apr 2020 23:07 #105963

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Actually putting a 60 fps piece of footage into a 30 fps timeline will look identical if you output 30 fps. To get to 30fps, you have to drop frames. If you put 15 fps into a 30 timeline, it will be choppy because you have to double up on frames. If you don't time remap the footage, then it will play as smoothly as it was shot but it won't be in sync with the delivery frame rate.

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 06 Apr 2020 23:14 #105964

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PaulG wrote: Arc - what is the frame rate that Pixar works at? 24fps. Sony? 24. Illumination? 24.

I can work at any frame rate a client wants. But generally, we work currently at 4K UHD 23.976. This is generally the preferred frame rate from my clients. I've only had one client request 29.97 in the last 5 years and that's because they're doing a documentary that started at that frame rate and they wanted the footage to integrate with that. Apart from that, nobody in the US is asking (me) for 30 (29.97) footage. No one is asking for 59.94. I don't work much with cinematics for games or stereo 3D stuff. Perhaps they want those frame rates for that work. In the feature/television space, 24p is still the prevalent frame rate. Do a survey.


I don't have to do a survey. I have output animations to VHS, DVD and Blu-ray many many many times. I don't have access to an Oxberry, Steenbeck or light box but I can in fact burn you a DVD or Blu-ray of animations that were rendered at 15 FPS, 30 FPS or even 60 FPS. I can drop them in a 1080i timeline and the end result looks fantastic. Obviously the 60 FPS render will be smother. Do you agree with that?

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 06 Apr 2020 23:32 #105967

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TBH, I don't know why we're talking about frame rates. Its a really boring subject. I'm more concerned with the fact that FCPX has lousy animation tools. Nightmarish keyframes, no image sequence support, No looping. No expressions. (I know: Motion) I will often work in FCPX as a compositor when we're trying to do something in real time, but my god I wish they added some better animation tools. And don't tell me its an NLE, that I should be using Motion or After Effects. I know those programs too and I'd like FCPX to add some of their functionality. The heart wants what it wants....

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 07 Apr 2020 00:43 #105969

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Man I haven't been here for a few days and this thread is STILL going! I'm not gonna read the 2 and a half pages that have been added since my last visit, but I wanted to respond to one post:

FCPX.guru wrote: Why at 24fps?


Because it's cheaper and easier at that low frame rate. The higher frame rate you go, the more time it takes and, likely, money. If you're doing a 24fps timeline animation on twos (effectively a 12 frame per second animation) then you can get it done relatively quick compared to if you did a 30fps timeline, also on twos running at 15fps. I usually do 30fps on ones and twos (30fps and 15fps animation), sometimes even alternating between them in the same animation. For example, the stopmotion opening of my Youtube show uses 30fps stop motion (in a 60fps timeline) for the table slide where the game boxes move on the table, but then cuts to 15fps (on fours) for when the games come out of the boxes and go into the consoles. The timeline is 60fps because that it what videogames run at, and I shoot my onscreen camera at 30 because I think 60fps from a video camera looks all kinds of awful. To me, a 12fps animation (24fps on twos) is pretty dang choppy. 15fps is still kinda choppy but noticeably better. Anything one ones (even 24fps) is butter! But it takes more skill, money, and patience to do it that way.

I hope this post wasn't too terribly boring. :)

FCP is a joy to work with when assembling my stop motion.

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Last edit: by Redifer.

STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 07 Apr 2020 01:49 #105971

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Redifer,

I am with you. I like things to look smooth. That being said can you provide a link to your channel? I did check it out a while ago. I though it was good.

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 07 Apr 2020 09:54 #105974

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It's here - www.youtube.com/gamesack

I have an episode that's claymation coming up but it won't be out until May 10 unless I decide to release it early. I generally do stuff about 2 months in advance of releasing them.

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 07 Apr 2020 11:26 #105976

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Cool. I never did claymation.

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STOP MOTION - How to create new project as 10FPS? 20 Jul 2020 07:28 #108835

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Motion handles 10 and 15 frames per second. When you start a new Motion project, select either 10 or 15 from the new project dialog. When you send the project to FCPX (publish as generator) FCPX will conform the animation to the new FCPX project frame rate without changing the speed of animation. That is: it will still look like a 10fps animation even in a 30 fps FCPX project. (I recommend using 24fps though).

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