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TOPIC: Wide Gamut Worth The Hassle Over Rec709?

Wide Gamut Worth The Hassle Over Rec709? 17 Feb 2020 19:22 #104694

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Th last documentary I edited, it was shot to a an Atomos Ninja in V-Log and ProRes, edited in wide gamut, then exported to HDR. It looked great, but was a bit of a hassle.

I'm currently editing a longer doc shot with the same equipment and to same spec. I'm thinking of just editing and exporting in rec709 since it will be a lot faster to grade. It's my film so it's my call. It will be distributed online on platforms like Amazon, etc. and will eventually be up on YouTube as well.

Any dangers in exporting to rec709 distribution wise that I should think about? My gut says stick to the newer color space and then use a conversion lut for a rec709 option, but again, more work. What are most of you pros out there doing for color space?

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Wide Gamut Worth The Hassle Over Rec709? 17 Feb 2020 21:40 #104699

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Red709 is simply standard broadcast, not a big deal, nothing to sweat over. If you want to edit HDR, go for it. Export regular rec708 HD. I don't think you'd need a whole new LUTut for 708, and I don't think one exists for "Rec708".

I have not delved into HDR, and I'm a pro. You do what suits your delivery best, and the final look you want best. Color space in post-production is a very subjective, aesthetic decision.

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Wide Gamut Worth The Hassle Over Rec709? 17 Feb 2020 23:26 #104701

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I'm remastering a film to HDR now to enhance its exposure. No cost/high reward potential.

If you're seasoned with the process, I'd def recommend HDR master - the streamers are clamoring for HDR content. It could possibly give you more exposure - HDR titles often get masthead placement on the iTunes store in respective genre submenus.

Amazon is thirsty for HDR10+ titles, and Netflix is all about Dolby Vision. Do you have a DV license?

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Wide Gamut Worth The Hassle Over Rec709? 18 Feb 2020 21:53 #104731

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Even when I shoot in VLOG on my GH5S (which is always, even though it kinda sucks and is SUPER noisy), I don't get much if anything extra if I edit it in a wide gamut Library (why must the entire library be wide gamut, BTW?). Highlights still clip at just over 100%. I dunno maybe I am shooting it wrong? I am capturing via an Atomos Ninja 5 in ProRes 422 HQ.

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Wide Gamut Worth The Hassle Over Rec709? 18 Feb 2020 22:01 #104732

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Redifer wrote: Even when I shoot in VLOG on my GH5S (which is always, even though it kinda sucks and is SUPER noisy), I don't get much if anything extra if I edit it in a wide gamut Library (why must the entire library be wide gamut, BTW?). Highlights still clip at just over 100%. I dunno maybe I am shooting it wrong? I am capturing via an Atomos Ninja 5 in ProRes 422 HQ.


It's interesting you say that. I have had no issues with a GH5 running into an Atomos Ninja Inferno shooting in 422 HQ and 4k 60p 10 bit for everything. I shoot way over exposed compared to rec709 without clipping. On the last shoot I did, I had a second GH5s I used for my wide cam, running to a Ninja V, recording to 422 hq 4k 60p 10 bit to match the GH5s. The monitors both looked great when previewing in hdr. But then when I bring it all into fcpx, the GH5s and Ninja V combo, clipped my subjects great hair on top and I could not recover it. I though perhaps I missed the exposure, but I don't think so. I think either the ninja V does not display or record the feed accurately, or the GH5s handles something differently. I ended up selling the Ninja Inferno after the shoot, and honestly, I much prefer it over the Ninja V. I bought the ninja V because of the ability to do proves raw and for gimbal use, but they still have not enabled probes raw.

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Wide Gamut Worth The Hassle Over Rec709? 19 Feb 2020 09:17 #104745

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My ProRes 422 HQ files ALWAYS come out as REC 709, at least that's how Final Cut Pro sees them. Not sure how to change this in the Atomos. Even when I make sure it doesn't record a 709 file, Final Cut sees it as 709 with no way to change it. Also I can change the Ninja V record settings to ProRes RAW and ProRes RAW HQ (interesting that there can exist a low-quality RAW, but OK). However it won't let me record. Maybe the SSD isn't fast enough? RAW is huge and the Ninja V says only 23 minutes of it can fit on the 500GB AtomX drive. The Crappy version of ProRes RAW says the same amount of time remaining.

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Wide Gamut Worth The Hassle Over Rec709? 20 Feb 2020 03:13 #104771

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Hi guys, not sure if you've seen this setup video with the Ninja, but he goes through the settings to map to HLG or PQ when recording. Basically, you don't want your log curve mapped to 709. Obviously, this doesn't apply to raw.


Yes, make sure your project library is one of the wide gamut HDR modes (HLG or PQ). Also make sure in your clip settings that final cut hasn't automatically applied a LUT clamping down to rec 709. Most of the time, if it detects log for the clip, it will automatically do this.

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Wide Gamut Worth The Hassle Over Rec709? 20 Feb 2020 05:22 #104772

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I forgot to mention the Rec709 FCPX bug. It's just a bug. One that I cannot believe has not ben fixed. If you search "Color Profile Override" and maybe Ninja you'll find the thread where I talk about it in here. When you record V-Log from GH5 to Atomos recorders, then import your ProRes clips into FCPX, FCPX does indeed interpret them as rec709 even if you import them into a wide gamut library and project.

To fix them you have to select all of the clips in the browser, then click on the "I" info button top right of the app and under one of the drop downs, find "Color Profile Override" and then choose rec2020 pq. You'll notice that all of the clips suddenly get brighter and the waveform changes to reflect the new values. I wish they would fix it. It could be a xml issue from the atomos, or it could be FCPX, wither way, one or the other MFGs could easily fix the problem. FCPX could read the atomos files and make the adjustment, or Atomos could label it correctly. The above is the work around.

Redifer wrote: My ProRes 422 HQ files ALWAYS come out as REC 709, at least that's how Final Cut Pro sees them. Not sure how to change this in the Atomos. Even when I make sure it doesn't record a 709 file, Final Cut sees it as 709 with no way to change it. Also I can change the Ninja V record settings to ProRes RAW and ProRes RAW HQ (interesting that there can exist a low-quality RAW, but OK). However it won't let me record. Maybe the SSD isn't fast enough? RAW is huge and the Ninja V says only 23 minutes of it can fit on the 500GB AtomX drive. The Crappy version of ProRes RAW says the same amount of time remaining.

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