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TOPIC: Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow?

Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 14 Jan 2020 14:25 #103900

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Hey!

I've ordered the new Sony FX9 camera (should arrive in a couple of weeks). And as it can shoot proxy files at the same time as the hi res footage, I've been thinking about the workflow for non-FCPX generated proxies. How do you guys deal with those?
Do you just manually relink the files when it's time to switch to the high res ones, or what?

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 14 Jan 2020 20:02 #103909

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DmitriZigany wrote: ...Do you just manually relink the files when it's time to switch to the high res ones, or what?


A lot of RED camera users do that. Each camera proxy case is unique, so you'll have to test the FX9 material and see how it works.

I'm interested in several things about that camera:

- How well electronic stabilization works via gyro data using Sony Catalyst
- When ProRes RAW via Atomos will be available, as it is on the FS5 and FS7
- How FCPX handles the 10-bit, 600 mbps XAVC-I material

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 14 Jan 2020 23:27 #103916

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I don’t have the camera yet but

- gyro data is supposed to work very well according to all reports I’ve seen. I’m hoping Apple will add support for it in FCPX sooner rather than later though, as it would be very much preferably to be able to use it directly in FCPX.

- The Firmware that support the raw output will be released in the summer. Hopefully Atomos will have a new recorder that can handle the 16bit raw by then.
It sucks that you need the extension back to output raw, just like on the FS7. That will likely mean that I can’t be arsed with it, as it’s a big expense and makes the camera way to big.

- The codecs are the same as in the FS7 so files should handle exactly the same.

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 15 Jan 2020 13:44 #103923

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DmitriZigany wrote:

Do you just manually relink the files when it's time to switch to the high res ones, or what?


Didn't an update in 10.3 or early 10.4 describe exactly how to deal with externally transcoded proxies? Because, just importing proxies and later relinking the originals could lead to conflicts. FCPX needs to know the specs of the original footage and treat the proxies as such, otherwise scaling and masking asf. couldn't translate reliably.

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 15 Jan 2020 13:53 #103924

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Axel wrote:
...Didn't an update in 10.3 or early 10.4 describe exactly how to deal with externally transcoded proxies? Because, just importing proxies and later relinking the originals could lead to conflicts. FCPX needs to know the specs of the original footage and treat the proxies as such, otherwise scaling and masking asf. couldn't translate reliably.


I don't remember any official info or a product change to deal with externally transcoded proxies. We know from trial & error that relink to externally-generated proxies works provided the below constraints are met. You are right it cannot be done blindly but the workflow must be tested and verified for each codec, esp. focusing on things like aspect ratio, scaling, masking, etc. But a lot of larger shops do this, esp. those using RED cameras.

www.fcp.co/fcp-forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-f...-than-in-fcpx#103899

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 20 Jan 2020 12:37 #104040

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Thanks! Guess I just have to try it out once I get the camera. Would be great as the FCPX generated proxies tend to be unneccessarily large (in file size).

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 20 Jan 2020 12:54 #104041

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Please remember to post any info on that camera when you get it, whether the camera itself or how the codecs work in FCPX. My doc team may get two of those, but more likely the FX6 depending on the features when released.

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 23 Jan 2020 23:21 #104106

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Will do!

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 19 Feb 2020 15:30 #104757

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joema wrote: Please remember to post any info on that camera when you get it, whether the camera itself or how the codecs work in FCPX. My doc team may get two of those, but more likely the FX6 depending on the features when released.

Have the camera now. Files work flawlessly in FCPX. Haven't tried the proxies but the XAVC-I files work just fine and look beautiful.
Now I just wish that Apple add support for the FX9's gyro/stabilisation data...

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 19 Feb 2020 16:04 #104759

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DmitriZigany wrote:

joema wrote: ...
Now I just wish that Apple add support for the FX9's gyro/stabilisation data...


Thanks. Can you try the Sony software to stabilize the image using the gyro data? How well does that work?

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 20 Feb 2020 17:55 #104785

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joema wrote: Thanks. Can you try the Sony software to stabilize the image using the gyro data? How well does that work?

Will try eventually!
I hate jumping between apps so haven't paid much attention as (to me) it's too much of a hassle having to go back to a different app, stabilise it then export the stabilised clip, import that into FCPX, replace the old clips... nah, that workflow just don't work for me... So to me, until there's support for it in FCPX it's a non-feature. Hope Apple will support it...

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 21 Feb 2020 14:51 #104797

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DmitriZigany wrote: ...I hate jumping between apps so haven't paid much attention as (to me) it's too much of a hassle having to go back to a different app, stabilise it then export the stabilised clip, import that into FCPX, replace the old clips.....


I totally agree but for now that's the only method. It is also unclear how (or if) that would work if you were using HDMI capture to PreRes RAW on Atomos. I don't think that's currently supported but it works on the FS5 and FS7. That acquisition method usually "washes out" all the special metadata stuff, probably including the gyro data.

My entire doc team uses a ProRes workflow, and I'm not sure how well the FX9 supports that currently. I think the stated Sony direction is the backpack is required and it's SDI only to some high end Atomos, and only for Sony proprietary raw. The internal codecs may be good but I don't want to transcode to ProRes in post.

BTW we use the Sony G 28-135 PZ f/4. It is pretty good. Not optically equal to a G-Master or Canon EF pro lens, but pretty good and very flexible. It is my "go to" lens for run & gun solo event shooting.

Tell me what your expected acquisition codec and post production workflow will be, esp. regarding FCPX. Will you use 4k XAVC-I, edit that or transcode before editing?

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Non-FCPX generated proxy workflow? 21 Feb 2020 15:55 #104798

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To get ProRES RAW you need to output via SDI on FS5 as well. And the FS7 also need the extension back for it's raw output, just like the FX9 (it's the biggest flaw of those two cameras!).

What I've heard the gyro data will not be available in the raw output of the FX9. But I've also heard that they're working to allow ProRes RAW to accept more meta date, so who knows what'll happen in the future.
The FX9 will however have a 16bit raw. It won't be available until in the summer and I expect Atomos to have a new recorder available not that long after that.

Unless you really need ProRes RAW, you can just use an Atomos Ninja V or similar to record ProRes from HDMI or SDI.
Personally, my initial impression is that the gains of ProRes over the internal XAVC-I is minimal and also see no need to transcode to ProRes for editing. I like that the XAVC-I is fairly manageable file sizes.

I have the 28-135 as well and it's finally usable now on the FX9... for most things I don't like f4 on S35 sensors... But on a full frame sensor it's ok. I only use it for things like live performances etc. (or when I might have to be able to use the zoom part of the footage).

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