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TOPIC: Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X-

Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 26 Jul 2020 01:32 #108936

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Hi All,

I am using a FujiFilm X-T3 along with FCPX version 10.4.8 and Compressor version 4.4.6. Additionally I am using a 2016 MBP15 operating under MacOS 10.15.5.

I have run into an issue with Compressor transcoding .h265, 10 bit 420 files to Prores 422. The Prores histograms are significantly shifted to the right vs the un-transcoded file. Please see attached.

Adobe Media Encoder properly transcodes the files to Prores 422 without the histogram shift.

I would appreciate the thoughts and suggestions of this group.

Thank you in advance.
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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 26 Jul 2020 12:58 #108943

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I just tested this using X-T3 4k/24 10-bit HEVC F-log material, sending it from FCPX 10.4.8 to Compressor 4.4.6 on MacOS 10.15.6 on an iMac Pro, and a standard gamut library. I used both ProRes 422 and ProRes 4444XQ outputs.

I don't see any shift on the RGB parade between the original camera clip and the ProRes exports. Try this test clip and see if you get the same or different results: www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/fuji-x-t3...-h265-FLog-10bit.MOV

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 26 Jul 2020 14:11 #108945

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I don't see a major shift in the OP's image.

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 26 Jul 2020 17:12 #108949

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Hi Joema:

Thank you for taking the time to test and send me a test clip from your camera. I gave similar treatment to your clip as I have done with mine. Please see attached.

The top image is your clip with no transcoding. The middle image is your clip that was transcoded with Compressor to Process 422. While your case is not as extreme as mine, it does show a shift up on the RGB parade. The red and green channels were below 100 on the neat image. However, if you carefully examine the Compressor Process 422, both the red and green channels are now both above 100. The blue channel is shifted up as well.

Just for fun. I also transcoded your file with Adobe Media Encoder to Prores 422. The results are shown in bottom image. There is no similar shift uo in the RGB parade as there is with Apple Compressor Prores 422.

Would appreciate your thoughts.

Don Barar
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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 26 Jul 2020 17:19 #108950

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Hi Guru,

Thank you for writing. Might I ask that you carefully examine my attachment again. Also, please review my attachment in my reply to joema. The parades are shifted up in both examples. I also transcoded joema's file with Adobe Media Encoder (AME) to Prores 422. AME does not shift the RGB parade up and does a better job of preserving the original histogram.

After you examine my attachments again I would very much appreciate your thoughts.

Don Barar

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 27 Jul 2020 21:13 #108969

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dgbarar wrote: ...I also transcoded joema's file with Adobe Media Encoder (AME) to Prores 422. AME does not shift the RGB parade up and does a better job of preserving the original histogram...


I confirm this happens if the Fuji 10-bit HEVC file is imported directly to Compressor and exported as ProRes 422, but not if exported from FCPX and not if sent from FCPX to Compressor.

I'm not sure why that is. Invisor shows there is some REC601 metadata in the video file header; maybe that is a factor.

As an immediate workaround you can import all those files to FCPX and batch export them all to ProRes 422. Try this:

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 27 Jul 2020 23:40 #108974

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Hi joema:

Thank you confirming what I have observed between X-T3 10 bit HEVC files and Compressor. Also, thank your for the FCPX work around.

I would like to read up more on this potential issue with REC601 in metadata. You mentioned "Invisor" but I do not know who this is. Can you reference a URL?

There seems to be more issues with Compressor. I went to camera store today and recorded a 10 bit HEVC files from a GH5. I wanted to see what Compressor would do with these files. No go. Compressor put it in Completed as Failed. So there seems to be other issues with Compressor and 10 bit HEVC. Even QuickTime would not open this file. Then I tried transcoding with Adobe Media Encoder. Worked fine. Very disappointing Apple.

Look forward to getting this URL for "Invisor" and REC601.

Don Barar

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 27 Jul 2020 23:46 #108976

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I have a GH5 and have never had issues with its files.

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 27 Jul 2020 23:50 #108977

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Hi Guru:

You were able to open the files in Compressor? Because all I got was a blank screen. I could hear the audio. But it "failed " after batching?

Don

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 28 Jul 2020 22:22 #108994

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dgbarar wrote: I would like to read up more on this potential issue with REC601 in metadata. You mentioned "Invisor" but I do not know who this is. Can you reference a URL?


Invisor is a utility that displays metadata from video files. You can compare side-by-side the differences between multiple files. After installation it integrates with Finder and you can right-click on a file and select Services>Analyze with Invisor, then at top select Comparison Mode, then drag/drop additional files from Finder to Invisor and it displays them in a comparison grid: apps.apple.com/us/app/invisor-media-file...or/id442947586?mt=12

REC601 is an older standard for color space which was embedded in the header of the Fuji HEVC files: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._601

dgbarar wrote: There seems to be more issues with Compressor. I went to camera store today and recorded a 10 bit HEVC files from a GH5. I wanted to see what Compressor would do with these files. No go. Compressor put it in Completed as Failed. So there seems to be other issues with Compressor and 10 bit HEVC. Even QuickTime would not open this file...


Can you import this file into FCPX? Some files from some cameras are not viewable in Finder or Quicktime Player, but can be imported to FCPX. One example is the 4k 10-bit 4:2:2 H264 All-Intra material from a GH5.

Can you upload the GH5 HEVC sample to me? If so I'll examine it. If possible just drop it here: www.transferbigfiles.com/dropbox/joema

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 28 Jul 2020 23:35 #108999

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Hi joema:

Thank you for Invisor and the URL. I will play with this and see what I come up with.

The GH5 file was obtaining from a BestBuy. I know very little on how to operate this camera. Neither did the sale representative. So I had to hack my way through it. I know that the file was HEVC 10 bit 422. I believe I set the camera up Long GOP--but I do not recall. The file did open in FCPX. It did not open in Compressor. Maybe this information will come out with Invisor.

I will upload the file to the URL that you provided.

Look forward to your feedback.

Don

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 29 Jul 2020 00:42 #109000

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dgbarar wrote: ...I know that the file was HEVC 10 bit 422. I believe I set the camera up Long GOP--but I do not recall. The file did open in FCPX. It did not open in Compressor...I will upload the file to the URL that you provided....


The file you sent was UHD 4k/29.97, 10-bit 4:2:2, 160 mbps, AVC (H264). It imports OK to FCPX 10.4.8 and can be shared to Compressor and then exported as ProRes 422. As with several Panasonic 10-bit formats it's not compatible with Quicktime and won't play in Quick Look or Quicktime. Maybe for that same reason it won't transcode in Compressor if directly loaded.

I think your original question about waveforms may involve a difference in how various apps handle gamma encoding. I'll look at this more tomorrow. See: larryjordan.com/articles/caution-premier...-color-the-same-way/

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 29 Jul 2020 01:37 #109001

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Hi joema:

I purchased Invisor. Good tool. I looked at a FujiFilm .h264 (8 bit) and HEVC (10 bit) files and did a comparison between the two using Invisor. The thesis that we have had is that the 10 bit files showed Matrix Coefficients and Transfer Characteristics for BT.601 and that is why Compressor is shifting the RGB parades up when transcoding to Proress 422. Yet, so does the 8 bit .h264 file. Yet, Compressor transcodes to Prores 422 without shifting up the RGB parade. Please see attached. The Matrix Coefficients and the Transfer Characteristics are at the bottom of the attachment.

Look forward to comments on this and the GH5.

Don Barar
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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 29 Jul 2020 01:37 #109002

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Hi joema:

I purchased Invisor. Good tool. I looked at a FujiFilm .h264 (8 bit) and HEVC (10 bit) files and did a comparison between the two using Invisor. The thesis that we have had is that the 10 bit files showed Matrix Coefficients and Transfer Characteristics for BT.601 and that is why Compressor is shifting the RGB parades up when transcoding to Proress 422. Yet, so does the 8 bit .h264 file. Yet, Compressor transcodes to Prores 422 without shifting up the RGB parade. Please see attached. The Matrix Coefficients and the Transfer Characteristics are at the bottom of the attachment.

Look forward to comments on this and the GH5.

Don Barar

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 30 Jul 2020 23:40 #109046

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dgbarar wrote: ...The thesis that we have had is that the 10 bit files showed Matrix Coefficients and Transfer Characteristics for BT.601 and that is why Compressor is shifting the RGB parades up when transcoding to Proress 422. Yet, so does the 8 bit .h264 file. Yet, Compressor transcodes to Prores 422 without shifting up the RGB parade...


The Matrix Coefficients thing was a guess. I think the issue is how gamma is handled between various encodings and playback methods. I'm not sure how gamma is encoded in the video header. It is common to see gamma differences on playback, esp between Quicktime and other container types. There may be no single rigid spec but various software may be allowed to interpret gamma as they see fit, based on whether TV or cinema playback is expected. I know VLC player has various configurable gamma settings.

I will try to explore this tomorrow; I was busy today on work items.

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 31 Jul 2020 14:38 #109053

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HI Joe,

Thank you for staying in touch. I have learned much from you through this discussion. I am at a loss at this point and have temporarily moved over to Adobe Media Encoder which does not alter the RGB parade from a Fuji X-T3 10 bit when transcoding to Prores 422. Also, I have still not heard from Apple on the bug report that I filed last week.

Don

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 04 Aug 2020 20:37 #109119

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Hi All,

While I doubt this is the correct thing to do, in Apple Compressor I applied a brightness/contrast video effect with brightness set at -12. This is resulted in an RGB parade for a Prores file that was very similar to the original non-transcoded file.

Again, I am not certain if this is technically correct. Gee, I sure wish I had a better idea of what is was going on under the hood of Apple Compressor that is causing this transcoding error for 10 bit files.

Don Barar

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Apple Compressor Does Not Properly Transcode 10 Bit 420 Files from a FujiFilm X- 08 Aug 2020 00:39 #109164

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Hi All:

I did more testing. This time using X-T3 10 bit files directly imported into FCPX. But then transcoding in FCPX using "Create Optimized Media" (CMO)--I could have also created optimized media at the time that I imported into FCPX. FCPX manual states that COM generates a ProRes 422 file that is used for editing.

So far I see no difference between editing the Optimized Media vs the same file which had been transcoded to ProRes 422 using Adobe Media Encoder. There are no shifts in the RGB parade and it causes no issues with editing and playing back on the time line.

The other advantage of using COM is that when I am done with the project, I can delete the optimized media and significantly reduce the file size of the library.

I have learned much in this process and hope that my experience will help others.

Don Barar

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Last edit: by dgbarar.
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