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TOPIC: Timeline to broadcast spec

Timeline to broadcast spec 08 Jun 2016 13:18 #77586

  • hepler
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Hey guys I got a request to supply a finished Video Specs:

1080i60 (59.94i) 29.97 fps - Drop Frame time-code 1920x1080

I know this is probably rudimentury but it is confusing me as to how to shoot it. Should I shoot 30p or 60p, and then convert it in FCPX to interlaced? or shoot it interlaced at or 60i and put it on a 30p timeline. I am shooting a sony Fs5.
Thanks and sorry for the probably dumb question.

I am not looking for a particular look it is just a simple product shoot. I assume that it doesn't matter how I shoot it, but Im not sure. What I also don't know is would you create a time line with this spec or let the timeline match the first frame then on output convert it to drop frame and 60i?

This is what they sent me.
Please provide this information to your editor to give them guidance on the optimal

We will be unable to use any video that does not comply with these standards.
Video Specs
1080i60 (59.94i) 29.97 fps - Drop Frame time-code
1920x1080

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Timeline to broadcast spec 08 Jun 2016 13:57 #77593

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Shoot to the specs, stay with that format through post, save on headaches and the transcoding merry-go-round.

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Timeline to broadcast spec 08 Jun 2016 14:01 #77595

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You mention that it's a simple product shoot.
If there's not going to be any reason to shoot it with fields, then I would shoot it progressive.
A reason to shoot fields would be if you're capturing fast action, and are delivering for TV broadcast.
ie - sports

I suggest shooting it at 30p, and work in a 59.94i project in FCPX.

Cheers

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Timeline to broadcast spec 08 Jun 2016 16:45 #77607

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What Ben said.

Why ask for trouble?

They are telling you exactly what they want. Give it to them and they'll hire you again. Give them a problem and they won't.

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Timeline to broadcast spec 08 Jun 2016 20:11 #77622

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Hey Anickt. Hey Ben.

I completely understand your point. You have been given delivery specs, and it would be foolproof to maintain one set of specs all throughout the job.

With all due respect, however, I think that your clients don't always know what's best. (Presumably, they have come to you because you're an expert.)

Without knowing the specifics, and knowing only that we're dealing with a product shoot, I'm sure the best thing for the client would be to shoot progressive.

That way, both the broadcast specs can easily be achieved via your editing package, and the client will have useable footage to be repurposed for other things.

The delivery spec is to ensure idiot-proof playback from a variety (or a specific) media outlet. As media professionals, we should be thoughtful of our clients needs- even if they aren;t automatically aware of what they are. THAT'S what should be getting your clients to come back to you over and over. imho

Cheers

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Timeline to broadcast spec 08 Jun 2016 20:28 #77625

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I've always shot what the delivery spec was, kept it going through the whole workflow, and it has always been smooth and easy. If they want to keep the raw footage and repurpose it later, they can do that with either interlace or progressive. I don't see how progressive makes that any better. I've never had a client do that with product demo footage, but, whatever works for your studio, do it. Why would progressive be better for the client who doesn't know any better anyway? They'll just come back to you for more work, if your work is quality.

If it was a serious concern, ask the client if they want to archive the raw footage, and if so, what the goal would be, then decide if progressive would be of any value over interlaced.

Which brings up another subject. My contracts state I hold on to raw footage, ONLY IF the client requests it, for 8 months, then wipe it. Otherwise the client can supply an appropriate drive for me to transfer it to, they can keep it, and I wipe my copy as soon as the project is done. That's something you'd want to clarify with the client.

And still, I'd just shoot what the spec was. Unless specifically asked to do otherwise. If they don't ask otherwise, it isn't going to matter.

Debatable issue, everyone does what works for them.

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Last edit: by BenB.

Timeline to broadcast spec 08 Jun 2016 20:29 #77626

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Scott

If I sent somebody this:

We will be unable to use any video that does not comply with these standards.
Video Specs
1080i60 (59.94i) 29.97 fps - Drop Frame time-code
1920x1080


...and they sent me anything else, I would not hire them again. I would also expect to receive raw camera footage and not transcoded footage.

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Last edit: by anickt.

Timeline to broadcast spec 09 Jun 2016 01:15 #77648

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I have just one thing to add to this, If you're shooting 60i, and editing a 60i timeline, and for whatever reason have to shoot some shots with the camera upside down that will be rotated later, shoot those shots in 60p.

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Timeline to broadcast spec 09 Jun 2016 03:47 #77649

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It doesn't appear that your drop frame question was answered. When you create a project in FCPX, select Drop Frame timecode and you're done. No need to do anything further upon export. This is regardless of whether you choose to record the interlaced spec they requested (which I'd recommend) or record progressive.
Creating history....one edit at a time !

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Timeline to broadcast spec 09 Jun 2016 12:22 #77665

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Thank you very much DGW, you gave me exactly what I wanted and needed to know on both counts. I appreciate the simple yet through answer.

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Timeline to broadcast spec 09 Jun 2016 15:10 #77674

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Hey everyone.

Progressive footage is better to work with in general as an acquisition format.
It looks more cinematic- less like "video". It plugs more easily into web-based and graphics/retouching workflows.

Perhaps I'm spoiled by working with mostly agency clients.
I know that my clients would be annoyed if they had to de-interlace footage when they did a frame grab, for example.

Hopefully Hepler has all the info he needs to make the best decision for him, his client, and his project.

Cheers

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Timeline to broadcast spec 09 Jun 2016 18:13 #77679

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Hi Scott,
All good points. Based on the OP's topic title and the need for drop frame TC it seems this product video is to be used for broadcast TV. In that case, 1080 60i is a good choice especially considering the required specs called specifically for it. But progressive footage is generally always better for most other cases -agreed :)
Creating history....one edit at a time !

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Timeline to broadcast spec 09 Jun 2016 18:24 #77680

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DG, I guess my only question is since I have always shot progressive in the past, I just didn't know if I could shoot it 30p, send it to the timeline with drop frame checked, then, send it to compressor and output a ProRes file for example and just change the field order to interlaced, 59i if that would meet their specs?

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Timeline to broadcast spec 09 Jun 2016 18:37 #77681

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Without exaggerating, ALL high end productions shoot progressive. (Maybe a slight exaggeration ;)

The only exception is when there is a specific stylistic reason to do otherwise. (I would argue that there's never a reason to, because you can make progressive footage look like interlaced footage using post processing.)

But to answer the question- Yes, you simply put your progressive footage into a 59.94i timeline, and the resulting output will create interlaced footage. (To the eye, it will look progressive, as both fields will be derived from same progressive image)

The QC engineers on the other end of this equation will be happy because they will see their broadcast specs.
You will be happy because your resulting project will look more aesthetically pleasing.
Your client will be happy because it will look fantastic. (Even if they don't know all the reasons why.)

I've been doing agency commercial work for over 15 years. Never once has a spot been kicked back to me because footage was originated progressive. (Back then, this meant that it was shot on film.)

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Last edit: by Scott Markowitz.

Timeline to broadcast spec 09 Jun 2016 18:51 #77682

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perfect

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Timeline to broadcast spec 09 Jun 2016 18:55 #77683

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Exactly as Scott says. You can create your master Prores file by sharing directly from FCPX without having to go to Compressor and without having to change field order.
Creating history....one edit at a time !

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Timeline to broadcast spec 09 Jun 2016 22:46 #77694

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Going progressive to interlaced is generally pretty smooth. Interlaced to progressive can introduce artifacts. Larry Jordan has an article on this somewhere. Just tossing that trivia out there.

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Timeline to broadcast spec 10 Jun 2016 14:16 #77716

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30p inside 60i timeline will create a "progressive look" effect (a bit stuttery on pans) which news channels don't like very much. Safest way to go is to shoot 60p and edit inside a 60i timeline.

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Timeline to broadcast spec 10 Jun 2016 17:52 #77725

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Hey guys,
I've made and delivered commercials for a number of years. That spec is pretty standard for broadcast, but that doesn't dictate your shooting format at all. Almost all broadcast spots (as well as tv shows, etc.) are shot 24p in the US (23.976fps really). The only reason to shoot 30p or 60i is for stylistic reasons. Like for 60i maybe it's supposed to look like live video or something. Almost no product spots are 60i, maybe the odd cheaply made local spot.

The standard way to go is shoot 23.976p, edit 23.976p. Make a 23.976p master and then add pulldown to go to 29.97 (60i for which they really mean 59.94i). Compressor can add the pulldown. So really, you're only dealing with the conversion at the last step. Otherwise, with everything including graphics, you're dealing with progressive.

If you want to put it in a 59.94i timeline in FCPX, I would do this with a flattened 23.976p export... it's really the same as going through Compressor to do it. You would do this to check if your cuts land on an interlaced field. They used to be really picky about this, but not really anymore since the way HDTVs work these days you will never see the half-field cut.

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