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TOPIC: Export help please. Youtube is killing me

Export help please. Youtube is killing me 30 Oct 2015 15:04 #70017

  • Russ Haskell
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What Duncan said, it would be great if we could test a short section of the original footage. If you could upload a short clip to some file sharing service and post the link so we could download it.

Did you try Ben's suggestion to upload to Vimeo.? Their encoding is very good.

BTW, I'm not sure how much benefit you would get by running this through Compressor. As I mentioned earlier, the default 1080P settings in FCP X are pretty high at 20 Mbps. Compressor might let you increase that up to about about 25 Mbps.. Craig noted that YT recommends CABAC entropy, which recent versions of Compressor can do. However, the file produced by the default settings for FCP also is CABAC.

Russ

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 30 Oct 2015 21:23 #70051

  • MarkNelsonMovies
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One thing to try is to wait and see if it improves, others have said that youtube does a low quality encode when first uploaded and than later does a higher quality pass. An interesting question would be, do some channels get higher processing priority/better prossesing?

Also, you could try contacting someone who uploads a lot of white-water videos (ie. 'planet canoe' etc..)
and ask what the specs for their video files are and than try to duplicate that with a custom compressor preset,
or if they have any tips for higher quality youtube uploads.
A lot of you-tubers are friendly folks who would be glad to help (thou i'm sure there are some that aren't) so it wouldn't hurt to try.

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 06 Nov 2015 04:15 #70266

  • jez
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Hey kind FCP folk. I have now tried and failed with this for weeks now, I am thinking that my computer might take an unexpected flight through my window very soon. Followed very closely by my sanity.


Here is an example of the video uploaded to dropbox. Great quality, only about 73mb and it looks awesome. BUT here is that exact same video uploaded to YT.

www.dropbox.com/sh/tyb21g7iidrdb7g/AAB9b...mqB4ryAwxQfmLma?dl=0
Note the playback feature shows it pixelated however if downloaded it shows it is fine.

For some reason, YT loves to kick me repeatedly in the junk, and quite frankly I am a little tired of having bruised and sore man parts.

Here is vimeo showing that the video is quite ok in HD. Not fantastic compared to the original format but still way better than YT.
vimeo.com/14481726
Here is the same video with YT
Just terrible. So bad.

I understand Vimeo is better quality and use all my videos on both youtube and vimeo however the views via YT are much bigger and I am required for my work to post these on YT and really want to find out why YT continues to not appreciate me. I tried taking YT out for a drink and a good night, but she keeps leading me on with nothing to show for my efforts except wine thrown on my brand new Calvin Klein shirt and a slap in the face.

Time for me to start considering hacking in to the YT mainframe and pulling it's heart out while it is still living so it can see it's own heart beating for just a moment before it dies a painful and public death.

Still would love to hear what I am doing wrong, I will be your best friend if you can help me. I promise. HELP :)

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 06 Nov 2015 05:23 #70268

  • dgwvideo
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The Vimeo video is a different video than the youtube video (from the links you supplied).
Creating history....one edit at a time !

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 06 Nov 2015 07:13 #70269

  • Karsten Schlüter
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anybody familiar with compression & codecs knows:
bubbling waters makes any codec scream.

YT delivers your video in 720 with 3mbps - which is, obviously, not enough .... you uploaded as h264/9mbps - which fullfills YT recommendations, but imho, is no good 'base' for another conversion, YT applies to any upload.

What is your recording format, res/fps/bitrate?
What are your project settings?
Have you tried proRes as uplod format to YT?

keep in mind: compression loss 'multiplies', when the bare eye says "lookin' awesome!" , the next 'gen' will show you whats gone

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Last edit: by Karsten Schlüter.

Export help please. Youtube is killing me 06 Nov 2015 15:50 #70277

  • Jonathan Levin
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Jez,

I don't think this is a problem on your end. Just seems like issue with encoding while uploading to YT et al. Out of our control unfortunately.

The one thing I have not tried is uploading a pro res master file of just the problem area and see what that looks like though it will take a long time to upload.

Jonathan

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 06 Nov 2015 17:39 #70285

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Upload the whole thing as a ProRes to YT, let it run overnight, see what happens.

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 06 Nov 2015 20:17 #70305

  • MarkNelsonMovies
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Another thing you could try is up-scaling it to 1080p and then uploading it, youtube seems to think that high resolution is the way forward and that anything less than 1080 is just junk for people with a slow internet connection, so their encoders might be optimized for 1080 video.

Also, shooting with a slower shutter speed/adding some blur in post might reduce the visual information enough to allow You-tube's encoders to work properly.

Everything I've uploaded to youtube so far has been 1080 30p and I haven't had any problems, I will be uploading some 720p material in the future and will let you know how that turns out, any 360p video uploaded to youtube looks like junk, even if it was a very high bit rate to start with.

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Last edit: by MarkNelsonMovies. Reason: add information

Export help please. Youtube is killing me 23 Nov 2015 03:35 #70877

  • jez
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Bugger,

Prores 422 didn't seem to work.
YT is now officially getting a visit by a 'friend' who has a passion for making people sleep with the fishes. He is quite talented at making people disappear and I do believe it is time for YT to meet their maker. I am not saying that YT isn't a good person, it's just YT has finally stepped over the line clearly outlined by our Italian 'Family'
I am just heading out now to purchase a large amount of lime, talk soon.

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 23 Nov 2015 07:27 #70878

  • Karsten Schlüter
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jez wrote: .... YT is now officially getting a visit by a 'friend' who....


you're disappointed, ok, strong language, ok ... but consider to edit your post after a good sleep ... ;)

just to feed my curiosity, I downloaded some wildwater scene from GoPros YTchannel, and uploaded it again ... all videos on YT (incl. my persomal ones) have on playback the same codec settings&bitrates ....

noticeable:
the GoPro material is 'soft' - but no blocks. Your material, esp in the beginning, looks horrible.

.... sooooo, verdict of the German jury:
YT can deliver without artefacts/blocks ...

Which leads us, again, to the very beginning:
What settings are you using - in camera, on import (how do you import anyhow? Using any converters?), in your project?

Esp. cam settings and the long way from cam to FCPX are of high interest ....
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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 23 Nov 2015 08:17 #70882

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Ok, thank you for your reply mate.

Which leads us, again, to the very beginning:
What settings are you using - in camera, on import (how do you import anyhow? Using any converters?), in your project?


Esp. cam settings and the long way from cam to FCPX are of high interest ....

In my camera setting, I am using
60fps
720

I import by the setting on FCP which is Video Properties - set based on first video clip.

Thanks for the info, I have to admit now that my 'friend' has his target, I am not sure I can call him back so don't be surprised if YT goes offline sometime soon.

Cheers mate

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 23 Nov 2015 08:35 #70884

  • Karsten Schlüter
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hmm, that's too basic... ;)

download the tiny (it's REALLY tiny) app
www.iffmpeg.com/iMediaHUD/

and we have to break down any further:
the 'on first clip' is for project settings... ok.

But how does you material come into your Mac?
insert SDcard into Mac, in FCPX cmd-I.... ?
Or, any other routine?

if so…
2nd: right-click in the Event browser on a clip, 'reveal in Finder', than drag the clip onto iMediaHud, post a screenshot, should result in something like that /s.attached file/


3rd question:
What camera?Any further settings, such as HQ/XQ....?

Q#4:
Do you edit in Proxy?
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Last edit: by Karsten Schlüter.

Export help please. Youtube is killing me 03 Jan 2016 01:16 #71894

  • jez
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Hello Karsten mate, I have intentionally had a break from editing anything for a while as I felt I was going a little loopy. Wanting to throw my laptop across the room screaming "death to all that is youtube" was a common day for me. I went on a health retreat and started to learn about the ways of bringing inner peace to my life which made me a much better person, but now I am back, better than ever, ready to fight this scourge on society that is the problems with uploading files. So take my hand Karsten mate, let's work together to try to bring about a new world, one that anyone can click with one button to bring about beautiful videos that don't have any pixelation issues. It's going to be a tough fight, but it might be just what the world was looking for.

download the tiny (it's REALLY tiny) app
www.iffmpeg.com/iMediaHUD/


and we have to break down any further:
the 'on first clip' is for project settings... ok.


But how does you material come into your Mac?
insert SDcard into Mac, in FCPX cmd-I.... ?
Or, any other routine?

Alright, so I insert the sd card into my mac, then I drag the whole file to my external HDD, then I press the import button on FCP and bring it into the project that way.

if so…
2nd: right-click in the Event browser on a clip, 'reveal in Finder', than drag the clip onto iMediaHud, post a screenshot, should result in something like that /s.attached file/

Ok, I have done this and it is attached.


3rd question:
What camera?Any further settings, such as HQ/XQ....?

I am not sure about this question. I am shooting on standard 720/60fps I have attached a picture of the settings on FCP

Q#4:
Do you edit in Proxy?

Um, no I do not think that I am editing in proxy.

The exported version looks amazing and great, I believe that after I upload it to youtube there is a terrible conversion that is going on which downsizes it to a yt version and makes it look like a dogs breakfast. I am totally up for any suggestions that you might have.

Thanks mate, I will take a few more deep breaths and sit in a yoga pose awaiting your reply.
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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 03 Jan 2016 01:26 #71897

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General
Complete name : /Volumes/Stout 2015/2015/World Championships/19152/MVI_9886.MOV
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 232 MiB
Duration : 40s 908ms
Overall bit rate : 47.6 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2015-08-25 13:21:45
Tagged date : UTC 2015-08-25 13:21:45

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=15
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 40s 908ms
Bit rate : 46.0 Mbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.833
Stream size : 224 MiB (97%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2015-08-25 13:21:45
Tagged date : UTC 2015-08-25 13:21:45
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Audio
ID : 2
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Little
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Codec ID : sowt
Duration : 40s 908ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 7.49 MiB (3%)
Language : English

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 03 Jan 2016 01:51 #71898

  • MarkNelsonMovies
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Ok, somethings fishy here,
I usually Use chrome as my web browser

I watched the 422 pro-res video on the forum page, the quality was bad even when set to 720p
watched on youtube page in safari, - same
watched on youtube page in chrome - quality is good ?!?!?! some of the better water I've seen in youtube videos ?!?!
youtube app on ipod 4th gen - also bad

not sure what this means, a conspiracy to get youtube users to switch to chrome? I'll try to test that video and my own videos on some other devices and see what kind of result I get.

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Last edit: by MarkNelsonMovies.

Export help please. Youtube is killing me 03 Jan 2016 02:23 #71899

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I think when youtube switched over to VP9 they may have downgraded their .h264 encoding quality.
Does anyone have an example video newer than October 21 (the OP's upload date) that has high quality water?

I think I may start thinking about putting my stuff on Vimeo

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 03 Jan 2016 03:22 #71901

  • Redifer
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If your video is 60fps why aren't you uploading it at 60fps? Youtube will run at a higher bit rate for the higher framerate. Please make sure it stays at 60fps the entire way.

EDIT: It actually IS 60fps on Youtube, you just can't view it embedded that way on the forum even when you increase the resolution. It does look better at 60fps when watched on the actual Youtube watch page but yeah it still looks like ass. I'd recommend against Vimeo because there is no audience there at all. If you want people to actually see it, don't put it on Vimeo. Also you need to pay for Vimeo if you actually want 1080p. And they don't like it if your video becomes popular and actually starts getting lots of views. They actually allot the amount of views you can have. Vimeo is not an option for me. Ever. Also, I actually like using the word "actually".

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Last edit: by Redifer.

Export help please. Youtube is killing me 03 Jan 2016 08:31 #71902

  • Karsten Schlüter
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Hi Jez,

yep, Yoga… and less RedBull. No RedBull for a week…-
Check your posts before hit "submit", your last attachment doesn't show what you tell .... anyhow.
Do me/us a favor, avoid fullquotes....
And sign quotes as quotes (select text, hit the little speech-bubble in the formatting menu), I waste time to detect what I've written, what's yours...

What camera are your using? (we probably had the question before, but still unanswered)
720/60 with 40mbps is an … exotic value combo. At last for me. So, manufacturer, type...?
I guess a Canon DSLR…?

What's interesting:
your latest YTvideo shows artifacts in the real-time section, the slowmos are much better, less 'blocky'.... Part of encoding is 'motion detection/prediction' (don't ask me for details! just talking smart) - which brings back Q#2: Are you in Proxy-mode?

Um, no I do not think that I am editing in proxy.


No think, just check: Upper right of the Viewer, Options, Media - what's checked, Optimized/Original or Proxy?


3rd Q:
I'm lost - which video is the proRes upload, add link?

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 03 Jan 2016 19:31 #71909

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I opened your video in Youtube on Safari and the playback quality was as you describe - terrible. However the default playback quality is set at 240p. After manually changing it to 720p it all looks much better. I could still spot bits of blockiness but that isn't surprising considering the sheer amount of movement going on within the shots. At 60fps and with that much movement, compression which you probably know relies on being able to reuse information from adjacent frames stands very little chance of compressing anything given that all that white water is completely different in every frame. The interview clip where there is by contrast very little movement looks great. You could try doing a multi pass H.264 prior to uploading it. Youtube's compression may cope better with interpreting this rather than using ProRes where every frame is an intraframe - just an idea. Also looking in the trouble shooting guide on Youtube it states. Frame Rate: 30 is preferred. 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97 are also acceptable.
Quick edit. I just viewed the same video in Chrome and the playback is significantly better. The artifacts are significantly reduced - barely noticeable for the most part and the 60fps playback at 720p came up by default and looked smooth. B)

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Export help please. Youtube is killing me 03 Jan 2016 23:50 #71911

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Thank you guys for getting back to me here. I am still in ultimate zen mode and have safely secured my weapons for the time being, Youtube is currently safe from my rants. In saying this, if YT did happen to knock on my door at some time I would not hesitate to smash the first thing I see (which most likely would be a glass vase full of flowers) over his pompous square head. A size 12 boot imprint might also be permanently over his forehead too, while I relieve myself as he looks up with his smug face, but I digress, I am at the moment in a happy place and will do my best to stop myself from initiating such a conflict, my zipper is done up and I am breathing in with the good and out with the bad.

watched the 422 pro-res video on the forum page, the quality was bad even when set to 720p
watched on youtube page in safari, - same
watched on youtube page in chrome - quality is good ?!?!?! some of the better water I've seen in youtube videos ?!?!
youtube app on ipod 4th gen - also bad

not sure what this means, a conspiracy to get youtube users to switch to chrome? I'll try to test that video and my own videos on some other devices and see what kind of result I get.


Hey mate, I also agree with this, the chrome looks great in 720. That is weird, every other browser looks terrible. That is annoying indeed.

Check your posts before hit "submit", your last attachment doesn't show what you tell .... anyhow.
Do me/us a favor, avoid fullquotes....
And sign quotes as quotes (select text, hit the little speech-bubble in the formatting menu), I waste time to detect what I've written, what's yours...

Ok, I can do that. Sounds like a plan. Can I quote Yoda in these quotes too?

Wars not make one great.

Thanks Yoda, but I feel that I must war with YT, otherwise the dark side might rise up.

A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

All right yoda, just relax, you look like a smashed crab buddy.

When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good you will not.

True mate, true. I am just a bit fearful of what YT might become if I do not slay this beast.

Fear is the path to the dark side…fear leads to anger…anger leads to hate…hate leads to suffering.

Come on Yoda, who's side are you on???? I am trying to make a difference here

Do. Or do not. There is no try.

Mate, I am done with you Yoda, go and jump in the Great Pit of Carkoon. Geez.

What camera are your using? (we probably had the question before, but still unanswered)
720/60 with 40mbps is an … exotic value combo. At last for me. So, manufacturer, type...?
I guess a Canon DSLR…?


I am using a cannon 60d. 60fps in 720 :)

What's interesting:
your latest YTvideo shows artifacts in the real-time section, the slowmos are much better, less 'blocky'.... Part of encoding is 'motion detection/prediction' (don't ask me for details! just talking smart) - which brings back Q#2: Are you in Proxy-mode?
Um, no I do not think that I am editing in proxy.

No think, just check: Upper right of the Viewer, Options, Media - what's checked, Optimized/Original or Proxy?


Ok, I just checked that proxy question and it is set for optimized/original as you can see in the attachment.

3rd Q:
I'm lost - which video is the proRes upload, add link?


It does look great in chrome but that is it. All other browsers look like a dog has thrown up on your nice new carpet and you know that there is no possible way that stain is coming out, no matter how much you scrub or use your new stain remover, while your dog looks at you in a "I really don't care that your new carpet has my vomit on it, in fact inside I am quite happy to have ruined my masters life" kind of way.

If your video is 60fps why aren't you uploading it at 60fps? Youtube will run at a higher bit rate for the higher framerate. Please make sure it stays at 60fps the entire way.

EDIT: It actually IS 60fps on Youtube, you just can't view it embedded that way on the forum even when you increase the resolution. It does look better at 60fps when watched on the actual Youtube watch page but yeah it still looks like ass. I'd recommend against Vimeo because there is no audience there at all. If you want people to actually see it, don't put it on Vimeo. Also you need to pay for Vimeo if you actually want 1080p. And they don't like it if your video becomes popular and actually starts getting lots of views. They actually allot the amount of views you can have. Vimeo is not an option for me. Ever. Also, I actually like using the word "actually".


Actually, I think what you are saying makes sense, actually. Vimeo is cool, but no one watches it compared to YT. Actually, I think the other day when I visited Vimeo at his house I saw a tumble weed drift by, I called out to see if anyone was home but all I could hear was the echo of my voice as I yelled out "Where are you...." I also now understand keeping it all in 60fps, cheers for your help :)

Quick edit. I just viewed the same video in Chrome and the playback is significantly better. The artifacts are significantly reduced - barely noticeable for the most part and the 60fps playback at 720p came up by default and looked smooth.


Yea I agree, it is totally weird, I wish I knew why it kept screwing up my videos, why does it treat me with so much disrespect. What have I done to deserve such crappy quality.
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