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TOPIC: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread

Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 10:55 #10506

  • BenB
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"Now when multicam, .psd compatibility, broadcast-out, etc were announced, did we see any live demos of those features before release? No, they just randomly popped up on the app store when they were ready."

NOT TRUE! These were announced by Apple before hand on the web site an in interviews.

I was watching the #lafcpug feed, and I did not see any oooh'ing or ah.ing at all. No idea who was doing that. One girl said, "the keyer looks cool." That was about it.

Remember that LAFCPUG has done FCP X demos at EVERY meeting EVERY month for the past YEAR! Who hasn't seen it yet?

And if anyone didn't notice the super high expectations on blog posts, FB groups, Twitter tweets, and forums before hand, you had to be living under a rock. Was Apple living under a rock?

NOTHING else matters but the response they got from the demo, and it was not good. NOTHING else matters.

Again, where were the "Significant Feature Releases" stuff?

I have work to do. Have fun y'all.

Good to see you on this site, Tom! Thanks for being here!
Last Edit: 28 Jun 2012 11:03 by BenB.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 10:58 #10507

  • Tom Wolsky
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Really unimpressive demo and delivery. Wow from a marketing director. I hope that's not the kind of presso he was doing last night, sitting down hidden behind the computer. That's cringe-making. Hope he had someone driving while he did walk and talk.

Nice to see Paul Saccone again.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 10:59 #10508

  • Mickey G
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Tom Wolsky wrote:
"If memory serves I only knew what to expect from FCP 5,6,7 the day it was officially announced on the MAIN PAGE of Apples website (a place now reserved for the latest MBP’s, ipads and iphones) not at some sneak peak event."

This just isn't so. When Apple used to go to NAB they would often show a product which would be released in a few weeks or more. In fact the FCPX release was just that, it was previewed at NAB in April for a product that didn't ship until late June.

Ok well this just proves my point even more of history repeating itself, why should we expect anything more or less from Apple.

I think some people just read too much into trying to anticipate Apples moves. I say just let the updates happen and click the download when its ready.

While it may be fun to try and anticipate Apple’s moves (especially regarding FCPX, a program that has been out for just 1 year) if taken to seriously your in for a world of disappointment.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:05 #10509

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You really miss the point Mickey. Tom said Apple DOES announce features in advance. But, there you have it. Apple did a piss poor demo, it reflects on those of us who teach it and use it in production to make a living. I guess that doesn't matter.

Apple DOES announce future features for FCP X, that is a simple fact. They dropped the ball, again.
Last Edit: 28 Jun 2012 11:06 by BenB.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:08 #10510

  • Scrubelicious
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BenB wrote:
In the Twitter feed several folks mentioned that the German show and Leverage were using FCP X, but it wasn't a really smooth experience. I don't put too much stock into what strangers say, but two of the folks tweeting are respected industry leaders I personally know and trust. That's all.

......

I just sent a carefully worded email to Tim Cook this morning...... ...... I'll also not expect FCP X to get much new significant features for the next 8 months or so.

Could you be kind to post these Tweets? Interesting since now there are two sides of the story but only one teller.

I also don't except anything new, but I like to see some of the old or standard features. Especially Apple Motion!
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:20 #10511

  • Mickey G
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BenB wrote:
"Now when multicam, .psd compatibility, broadcast-out, etc were announced, did we see any live demos of those features before release? No, they just randomly popped up on the app store when they were ready."

NOT TRUE! These were announced by Apple before hand on the web site an in interviews.

Yes they were announced but send me a link to where Apple officially committed to a live pre-release demonstration of how they actually worked before the update was officially up on the App Store.

Remember that LAFCPUG has done FCP X demos at EVERY meeting EVERY month for the past YEAR! Who hasn't seen it yet?

Yes but I don’t remember any of these being demos of unreleased features, just stuff that had already been released. I’m talking about official Apple demonstrations, where the Apple/FCP team is in the house and being promoted officially by Apple.
And if anyone didn't notice the super high expectations on blog posts, FB groups, Twitter tweets, and forums before hand, you had to be living under a rock. Was Apple living under a rock?

When has Apple not been living under a rock??
FCP7 went untouched for how friggin’ long and still 7 was barely worthy of a whole number upgrade from the aging FCP6. After the FCPX launch people were flocking to Premiere and back to AVID in swarms. Apple did nothing until months later. and so on and so on.
Hell I saw all the hype everywhere for yesterdays event and was hoping for a miracle but after it came and went I was just like “eh Apple being Apple, I’ll just wait for the update and continue working in FCPX as it is today"
Again, where were the "Significant Feature Releases" stuff?

Well thats the Million $ question
NOTHING else matters but the response they got from the demo, and it was not good. NOTHING else matters.

That is the fact of the matter and you hit the nail on the head, end of discussion as far as I’m concerned…

Although I do think they got a good response from some hold-outs who haven’t kept up with the state of FCPX since the launch debacle but probably a 15%-85% positive/negative ratio though...
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:32 #10512

  • Mickey G
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BenB wrote:
You really miss the point Mickey. Tom said Apple DOES announce features in advance. But, there you have it. Apple did a piss poor demo, it reflects on those of us who teach it and use it in production to make a living. I guess that doesn't matter.

Apple DOES announce future features for FCP X, that is a simple fact. They dropped the ball, again.

Ok yes I see how I misread Toms post. I just always remember checking Apples page and seeing all big and bright a new FCP was available, then reading up on the features and that it was available at that time or within a couple of days.

Anyhoo my thought process is that for every 1 thing Apple does right with FCPX they do 2 things wrong so I’m just like Whatevs…

But its usually 1 VERY BIG RIGHT and 2 VERY BIG WTF WRONGS so I guess I’m in it for the long haul and will just continue to use the right tool for the right job, hopefully and when I have my say that tool can be FCPX
Last Edit: 28 Jun 2012 11:35 by Mickey G.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:33 #10513

  • simonpwood
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Still, back in reality I have to say that I can't remember a new piece of software that has had this many new free updates in such a short amount of time.

FCPX is getting better, and more stable. Lots of features are available today that were not available one year ago. I guess that this is the message that Apple is trying to get out: look what it can do today.

To people who already use the software this is nothing new, but it is important that the message is sent out to more potential users to increase the user base (which in the end is important for current users as we want it to have more exposure in the pro world, and there to be more paying jobs for FCPX editors).

Apple needs to keep getting out there and pushing this software, so I applaud them for continuing to do so, and hope they do more more.

If anything we should be writing letters to Apple asking them to more of this, not just write them to piss on their parade every time they make a presentation that doesn't impress us. No?
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:38 #10514

well, was there any new news for fcp x....
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:38 #10515

  • Mickey G
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simonpwood wrote:
Still, back in reality I have to say that I can't remember a new piece of software that has had this many new free updates in such a short amount of time.

FCPX is getting better, and more stable. Lots of features are available today that were not available one year ago. I guess that this is the message that Apple is trying to get out: look what it can do today.

To people who already use the software this is nothing new, but it is important that the message is sent out to more potential users to increase the user base (which in the end is important for current users as we want it to have more exposure in the pro world, and there to be more paying jobs for FCPX editors).

Apple needs to keep getting out there and pushing this software, so I applaud them for continuing to do so, and hope they do more more.

If anything we should be writing letters to Apple asking them to more of this, not just write them to piss on their parade every time they make a presentation that doesn't impress us. No?

Yes this is what I’ve been trying to say. Thank you for summing up in one post what I’ve been trying to say in 5 or 6 now lol.
Well actually I wouldn't say to congratulate Apple on a job well done yesterday considering this was LAFCPUG and Apple should have known the expectations would be through the roof. They should have had more to say/show. Now if Apple officially is involved in lining up these sorts of demos at other events then yes, they are on the right track.

But to add there is plenty of room for improvement to their marketing strategies. As I said in another post I can see how this can be tough as they can potentially and legitimately market FCPX to the lowest end consumer bottom feeder to the biggest post houses that work on the highest $ projects, its just that kind of program.
I just can’t understand why a company such as Apple CANNOT figure it out…

Hats off to the development team, Marketing team needs to step up. They cannot just rely on the “Final Cut Pro” name any longer. Adobe has stepped up and AVID is now much more appealing and then theres Vegas…
In the end we all win as we now have extremely affordable choices (thanks to Apple lighting a fire under everyones asses with the O.G. FCP and even Color)
Last Edit: 28 Jun 2012 12:00 by Mickey G.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:43 #10516

  • Splicerman
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I gotta agree with BenB on this.

PR really dropped the ball on this. Next time, please don't announce "Significant New Features" and then demo 6 month old features. If you are going to demo old features, please don't send your product manager to LAFCPUG, where these features have been demoed months beforehand.

I think last nights demo would have been great around NAB.

Crazy dream I had last night. I was having an issue with fcpx, contacted apple. 3 fcpx techs came to my office rewired a bunch of stuff got me back up and working. The weird part is that all of them had a speech problem and couldn't talk right.
Last Edit: 28 Jun 2012 11:45 by Splicerman.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:46 #10517

  • robertdee
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I'm disappointed because of the poor wording of the blurb which misleadingly hinted at new features and I think it's shocking that a Head of Product Marketing would show up to a presentation with software that's two updates behind.

I agree that FCPX has made huge progress in a year but if it doesn't win over the pro community, it's dead. I think the remaining sticking points that prevent it getting used by pros are: proper shared use of projects, a viewer window and professional level sound mixing with I/O.

That said, I think there's still a huge lack of understanding about what is possible out there. People often think a strong opinion makes up for a lack of knowledge. FCP had the same pro/not pro arguments going on for years before it dominated and FCPX is effectively a new piece of software so it will have the same battle.
Last Edit: 28 Jun 2012 11:47 by robertdee. Reason: shocking grammar
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:46 #10518

well, I love fcpx..I think it's great I would never go back to 7...but it can as any software get better.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 11:55 #10520

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robertdee wrote:
I'm disappointed because of the poor wording of the blurb which misleadingly hinted at new features and I think it's shocking that a Head of Product Marketing would show up to a presentation with software that's two updates behind.

I agree that FCPX has made huge progress in a year but if it doesn't win over the pro community, it's dead. I think the remaining sticking points that prevent it getting used by pros are: proper shared use of projects, a viewer window and professional level sound mixing with I/O.

That said, I think there's still a huge lack of understanding about what is possible out there. People often think a strong opinion makes up for a lack of knowledge. FCP had the same pro/not pro arguments going on for years before it dominated and FCPX is effectively a new piece of software so it will have the same battle.


Just go to the FCPX section on other boards (like DVXUser / DVInfo) and you will still see lots of misinformed information about this software. There is a thread right now stating that:

- You can't edit DSLR footage natively in FCPX
- You have no way to import FCP7 projects, at all
- No multi cam support in FCPX

This is all false. These are the new features that Apple is trying to inform people about. Here on this forum we are all pretty much up to date on what X can do, and can't do. But I'm pretty sure that we were not the target audience for that presentation.

Apple is trying to increase its user base, not preach to the converted. The first step in this has got to be to let people know what it can do, and to overturn some year old facts that have been incorrect for months now (but still endlessly recycled by so called experts as reasons why FCPX is not a pro app).
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 12:00 #10522

you are right...
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 12:01 #10523

  • Splicerman
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simonpwood, I agree that the software is getting better fast, and I think when the new audio editing and dual monitors are released, it's going to be amazing. Remember this is the same company that made copy and paste on a cellphone cool.

I also agree that apple needs to get out there more. The problem is that this was the first public demo by a apple rep since the launch to my knowledge, and both have enraged "pro" users.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 12:25 #10527

  • Mickey G
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Just go to the FCPX section on other boards (like DVXUser / DVInfo) and you will still see lots of misinformed information about this software. There is a thread right now stating that:

- You can't edit DSLR footage natively in FCPX
- You have no way to import FCP7 projects, at all
- No multi cam support in FCPX

This is all false. These are the new features that Apple is trying to inform people about. Here on this forum we are all pretty much up to date on what X can do, and can't do. But I'm pretty sure that we were not the target audience for that presentation.

Apple is trying to increase its user base, not preach to the converted.

Exactly but I just don’t think LAFCPUG was the right venue for this. The thing for Apple to have done would have been:

- Stress exactly how FCPX has penetrated the upper tier pro market/discuss numbers sold (as I’m sure its a lot. Typical lead-in iOS presentation stuff)

- Have a beta 10.0.6 or 10.1 whatever copy running and/or at least pull the curtain back a little more on what to expect of these upcoming features

- Discuss a plan of where they want to see FCPX go in the future. Do they even want to see FCPX in high-end post houses or do they just want to appeal to the masses to edit everyday web content? we need some insight on what they envision for the program and a roadmap at least for now until the damage control is done

Once this is set in stone for us users who keep up to date on fcp.co and use FCPX then go on to demo to the masses what the app is capable of until the new update is available, rinse/repeat

By the time legacy FCP was at version FCP4.5 I don’t think they needed that kind of strategy, it was clear the market Apple had penetrated, they just needed to keep improving the program with timely updates and let it sell itself which is what they did until version 7.

Until the damage is under control and the FCP platform is back on course (whatever course that may be) Apple needs to be more aggressive with their marketing and figure out who they want to market to.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 14:55 #10539

  • BenB
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Let me put it this way. I and most here were not expecting much from this live event. That's not the point. Apple NEVER does live events that are not to show off what's coming, period. When has Apple ever done a simple demo like this for a user group before? Never. Every live event in the past has been to showcase what is coming.

This whole thing was uncharacteristic to start with. But when Apple does any live event the general public is expecting what happens at all of Apple's live events.

There are now a bunch of folks out there who are disappointed that this was only a retail store consumer demo. That by itself is very out of character for Apple to do at a live event.

They should have shown new stuff and talked about the future, as ALL Apple live events have done. Or have simply not done the demo at all.

Those of us who know Apple's FCP team's wacko, unreliable public behavior didn't expect much. But, the general public expected LOTS.

Again, when has Apple ever done such an event like this and NOT shown us what was coming in the future? When?
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 15:01 #10540

  • fcpguru
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The fact to remember is that these same features were demoed at Lafcpug several months ago. I think people feel like their time was wasted because it was information they already knew! Yes, a few people may have learned something - but the majority there have seen them.
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Re: Apple At LAFCPUG - (semi) Live Thread 28 Jun 2012 15:26 #10544

Ben, we can argue all day about how Apple demos it's other products- but that's largely irrelevant to this conversation. With OS updates, they demo early enough for developers to react before a release. With consumer hardware and software, they demo pretty much when they are ready to ship those products.

But historically, the ONLY time Apple has demoed unreleased features of FCP has been at NAB. So history is on their side for being consistent.

The criminal mistake here was one of failing to set expectations accordingly. The wording of the agenda DID set false expectations that we might see and hear more about unreleased features and timelines. I'd equate it to WWDC last year. Every year since 2007, Apple has released new iPhone hardware at WWDC. So Apple made it very clear in the invites to say they were going to be talking about iOS, OSX, and iCloud. Done.

Apple should know better than anyone how rumours build up around their presentations. Over the last week, the talk on twitter went from "Apple talking FCPX at LAFCPUG" to "Apple releasing 10.1!" and some even reporting they might demo new MacPro hardware.

When AVID and Adobe are seizing the opportunity, and willing to be SO communicative and engaged, Apple has to realize it can't stonewall like this.

Well, I suppose they can- but if this is how they're going to play it, they're never going to get people back- even if FCPX ends up being a better product.
Last Edit: 28 Jun 2012 15:28 by Disproportionate Pictures.
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