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TOPIC: Novice user - Creating an effect for FCPX - strange timing behavior

Novice user - Creating an effect for FCPX - strange timing behavior 21 Apr 2017 00:34 #87389

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Hello all.

I'm trying to create a simple fade in (and fade out) effect in Motion for use in FCPX. Seems simple enough: Create a new FCP effect, apply a fade in-out behavior at the beginning of the timeline, put a mandatory build in (or build out) marker on the timeline, publish the fade in (or fade out) rate and delay parameters and save the effect.

All works as expected -- except: when I apply the effect in FCPX, the duration of the fade is half of what it should be. So a 10 frame fade in is actually only 5 frames. 20 frames yields a 10 frame fade up. And so on.

I'm at a loss to explain this behavior. Am I missing something obvious? Thanks in advance for any help.


Current release of Motion 5 and FCPX 10.3.3
Current Sierra OS
2013 MacPro (trashcan)
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Novice user - Creating an effect for FCPX - strange timing behavior 21 Apr 2017 02:28 #87391

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What's wrong with the Cross Dissolve that comes with FCPX?
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Novice user - Creating an effect for FCPX - strange timing behavior 21 Apr 2017 03:06 #87393

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Hi Ben.

Nothing wrong with the cross dissolve. My intent is to replace using the opacity fade handles, for which there is no keyboard shortcut or direct access (unlike the new "add audio fades" feature).

I often prefer to use the opacity fade method, especially since the cross dissolve has no means of specifying "starting at" or"ending at" transition. The process of selecting , CTL-V, twirling the triangle, pulling the little fade button, then CTL-V to collapse the keyframe editor is kind of cumbersome.

In addition, I've noticed that for the last couple of FCP builds, I have an intermittent UI bug in which the fade rate shows frames and subframes for the fade values. In other words, pulling the fade handle shows increments like 1.87, or 3.94, or 10.16 instead of 2 or 4 or 10 frames. This is strange, since there are obviously no subframes to deal with in video. It's also annoying, as it rarely reads as an even number of frames (2.00, or 10.00, etc.). Obviously, the fade rate must be rounding up or down. But this intermittent display bug is really distracting. It happens at least 50% of the time, starting sometime after version 10.2

So, given all this silliness, I thought making a pre-defined 10 frame fade-in and fade-out effect (adjustable in the inspector to a different rate) that I can just drag or double click onto a clip would be an easy workaround. And it is easy. But the duration is half of what it should be. The duration is correct in Motion, but not in FCP.

Any thoughts on why this could be happening?
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Novice user - Creating an effect for FCPX - strange timing behavior 21 Apr 2017 07:14 #87395

Image Samba wrote:
… duration is half of what it should be. The duration is correct in Motion, but not in FCP.

just to exclude the obvious:
Motion and FinalCut projects frame-rates match?
(no 30 vs 60 fps issue…)


nonsense …
Last Edit: 21 Apr 2017 11:02 by Karsten Schlüter.
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Novice user - Creating an effect for FCPX - strange timing behavior 21 Apr 2017 10:28 #87400

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Sub-frames fever to the audio samples, thus there are sub-frames in video.

I've been happy being able to use the ripple & roll handles on transitions, as well as having easy duration control. I can start/stop a transition easily & quickly in any manner I need. The old method from legacy FCPX seems unnecessary to me now.

Transitions in Motion are flexible, and frame rates adapt to your project.

Just my 2 cents.
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Novice user - Creating an effect for FCPX - strange timing behavior 21 Apr 2017 11:01 #87402

FCPX.guru wrote:

Transitions in Motion are flexible, and frame rates adapt to your project.
…..

stand corrected, you're right, Ben.
(had a diff. question in mind)

@ i.S:
have you checked your FinalCut Preferences/Transitions Duration?

translength.jpg
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Novice user - Creating an effect for FCPX - strange timing behavior 21 Apr 2017 13:28 #87413

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For doing precise transition work, the Precision Editor is super handy! You can actually see all used and unused content precisely and get things lined up perfectly super fast and easy.
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Novice user - Creating an effect for FCPX - strange timing behavior 22 Apr 2017 00:19 #87432

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Hi Ben and Karsten. Thanks for responding. I fear I haven't been as clear as I should have.

I'm not making a transition, I'm making an effect. The effect uses the "fade in/out" behavior to perform an opacity ramp up to create a fade in of the clip to which it is applied in FCP. If there is a video clip underneath the clip to which the effect is applied, then the fade acts as a dissolve. (Those old enough to remember the Immix Video Cube will recall that this is precisely how one created a dissolve in that NLE.)

At your suggestion, I checked the frame rate of the Motion project, which I had created as a 4k 59.94 fps project. Just to experiment, I created a new project at HD 1920x1080, 29.97 fps. Lo and behold, the new effect works properly in FCP.

I am puzzled at this result, since in the broadcast world, 59.94 and 29.97 are typically used interchangeably to describe the same frame rate (fields vs. frames). But whatever the reason, making theMotion effect timebase 29.97fps works for 1080i 29.97 FCP projects. It remains to be seen if the 29.97 transition rates scale properly when used in a 23.98 project.

More to come...
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Novice user - Creating an effect for FCPX - strange timing behavior 22 Apr 2017 00:37 #87433

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Continuing the discussion...

there are sub-frames in video

I don't think that's true. I can't, for example, specify a 2.5 second video dissolve. Only 2 or 3 seconds. Nor can I trim, say, 4.7 frames of video off the end of a clip.

So why would there ever be a decimal value attached to a fade rate indicator when using the video opacity handle? I get it for audio, because there are subframes. But even there, aren't the subframes expressed as samples, rather than as decimal units?

FWIW, the decimal/non decimal display applies to both audio and video: both either show decimals or don't.
I'd post a screen shot of what I'm talking about, but the bug isn't happening at the moment.

Ben, as far as trims and transitions - I'm with you there. I use the trim modes as they're meant to be used, and I find them very well thought out. And I typically use transitions, especially in the primary story line. The opacity ramp method is mostly for connected clips or especially for dips to and/or from black, which is very cumbersome to achieve using the always-centered crossfade transition.

And a final point to clarify - the "novice user" description refers to my relative lack of experience with Motion. I've been editing since the days of quad machines and EditTec, CMX, etc. (said the old man as he hobbled over to his recliner... ;) ;) )
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