Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Workflow: Adjustment Layer or Custom Settings ? 16:9 Footage to 2.35:1 Output

Workflow: Adjustment Layer or Custom Settings ? 16:9 Footage to 2.35:1 Output 29 Nov 2018 22:14 #98006

  • Smesh
  • Smesh's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 0
Okay all you gurus out there.

I'm working on a doc style art film on gabby-argali sheep in Mongolia. I want to deliver it in a widescreen aspect ratio for a more cinematic, dramatic look, but all the footage was shot in 16:9, 4k using a Sony FS7, A7Sii and A7Rii. I have free rein to cut it the way I want, and from what I see, I should be able to make the footage work at that aspect ratio. I have used adjustment layers to accomplish this look in past projects, but sometimes, I run into issues with effects (like Ken Burns effects) that get messed up with adjustment layers. It's been a while, but I think I used compound clips to solve of those issues.

As I begin my rough cut though, I am thinking about just making the project settings a widescreen aspect ratio right off the bat in the project settings. Because I might want to also punch in, I am thinking a 2K version. Are there any downsides to this that I am missing? Is an adjustment layer still the best way to handle this? Any other issues to consider? Any recommendation for aspect ratio besides 2.35:1?

I'm not sure it matters, but no distribution is in place so I'm not constrained by any rules at this point. The client financed, produced and shot this on his own, and might just put it out via the web. It's possible it might be sent to Netflix or another distributor in the future though, so I want to keep options open.
Last Edit: 29 Nov 2018 22:21 by Smesh.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Workflow: Adjustment Layer or Custom Settings ? 16:9 Footage to 2.35:1 Output 30 Nov 2018 16:11 #98011

  • FernKraft
  • FernKraft's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 205
  • Thank you received: 28
  • Karma: 5
At our studio we are doing something similar, and that is the workflow we are following, (except we're still in a '4k' timeline).

Not using adjustment layers makes life super easy, as we don't have to worry about accidentally selecting the adjustment layer while working.

The only hiccup we have come across is with our Multicam interviews, when we insert them into the timeline, we have to set the spatial conform to fill for all angles of the time line. (it's odd that one can't do it in the even browser like all other clips). it's a small inconvenience, almost not worth mentioning.

If you aren't punching in in dramatic ways, I'd probably stay in 4k. We have definitely had to punch in a couple percents for the fixing of horizons and such, and haven't noticed anything terrible interns of quality.

We chose 2.39 as our aspect ratio, but thought about 2:1, or 2.35. that being said, we chose the aspect ratio long before post, so everything was framed with that in mind. We also have still reserved the right to go to either of those aspects later, though that is unlikely. My biggest concern with what your planing is that the composition of the DP will be changed by adjusting the aspect ratio... but if they are okay with your DP, then all is well.

As for final distribution, there may only be a few extra little steps depending on where you submit, but otherwise, nothing that should put up any red flags. Worst case is that you have to place either an export or compound clip (and then add the adjustment layer) into a 16:9 project and (re)export.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Workflow: Adjustment Layer or Custom Settings ? 16:9 Footage to 2.35:1 Output 30 Nov 2018 16:46 #98012

  • Smesh
  • Smesh's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 0
Thanks Ferncraft.

I exported a test clip yesterday with project settings of 3840x1634 and threw a quick grade on it. I did have to punch in a bit to match up horizons. All of the footage was shot in 4k, except I found some random files that were 1080p, and of course those were some of the best ones. I'm not sure why he chose 1080p 24p on the FS7 for some shots. Might have been an accident. I could understand if they were under cranked, but they were 24p so. Anyway, the shot of the guy with the hat is 1080p and seems to hold up to upscaling fairly well. The landscapes are 4k though and I found it odd that when dropped into the timeline, FCPX still forced me to scale up 135%. The aspect ration of both clips is 3840x2160 60p, so I should just be able to move the clip up or down to align the horizons, no? The landscape clips seemed to fall apart more than 1080p portrait. The landscapes were panned really fast, so I slowed one down to 40% (24p timeline ) and the other to 25%, both using optical flow.

test clip

The project was run and gun and the camera op is a one man operator. He doesn't have much experience, and unfortunately most of the footage breaks axis, there are no Multicam clips or multiple wide, mid, or closeup takes to cut from. It's going to be a real struggle to pull a story out of what I have. There is no script, just a bunch of footage to work from and the DP is now out of the picture. So as far as that goes, I can do what I want creatively. As you said, the tricky part will be working with his framing, which was not intended for widescreen.

As far as your workflow, if not setting the project settings or an adjustment layer, what are you using a s guides to frame your edits? A png with guides or something?
Last Edit: 30 Nov 2018 16:49 by Smesh.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Workflow: Adjustment Layer or Custom Settings ? 16:9 Footage to 2.35:1 Output 30 Nov 2018 17:25 #98013

  • FernKraft
  • FernKraft's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 205
  • Thank you received: 28
  • Karma: 5
We ARE making our project settings a 2.39 aspect ratio!

We shot in 4096x2160, and thus our project setting are 4096x1714, (in my mind that is still technically 4k) then we set the spatial conform for all clips to fill. This means that what we see is what we will get.
Because our spatial conform is set to fill, all we have to do when "reframing" is just adjust the Y axis, and if we need to rotate a clip for horizons, we just just zoom in a few percents as necessary.

Hope that helps.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Workflow: Adjustment Layer or Custom Settings ? 16:9 Footage to 2.35:1 Output 30 Nov 2018 17:34 #98014

  • Smesh
  • Smesh's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 0
Oh got it. So spatial conform is what I need to look into. I've never used it, and not sure what it does, but I'm guessing that not having it set is why I need to zoom the footage to 135% to make it fit the 3840x1634 box. Since my footage is 3840 to begin with.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Workflow: Adjustment Layer or Custom Settings ? 16:9 Footage to 2.35:1 Output 30 Nov 2018 17:49 #98015

  • Smesh
  • Smesh's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 0
So spatial conform is still zooming into the clip to fill the box when using fill. Seems weird since the project settings and the clip originals are both 3840. Hmmmm
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Workflow: Adjustment Layer or Custom Settings ? 16:9 Footage to 2.35:1 Output 30 Nov 2018 18:35 #98016

  • Smesh
  • Smesh's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 0
FernKraft wrote:
We ARE making our project settings a 2.39 aspect ratio!

We shot in 4096x2160, and thus our project setting are 4096x1714, (in my mind that is still technically 4k) then we set the spatial conform for all clips to fill. This means that what we see is what we will get.
Because our spatial conform is set to fill, all we have to do when "reframing" is just adjust the Y axis, and if we need to rotate a clip for horizons, we just just zoom in a few percents as necessary.

Hope that helps.

So just to check, are you editing in a regular 4k project, then once done your editing, duplicating your project, changing your custom aspect ratio, then selecting all clips and conforming to fill? Or are you editing from the get go in a project with custom aspect ratio? Also, why 2.39:1 vs. 2.35? Thanks.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Workflow: Adjustment Layer or Custom Settings ? 16:9 Footage to 2.35:1 Output 30 Nov 2018 23:08 #98025

  • FernKraft
  • FernKraft's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 205
  • Thank you received: 28
  • Karma: 5
Our Project settings are 4096x1714. yes it is custom timeline.

before we even start editing, we set all the clips in the event browser to a spatial conform of "fill".

we chose 2.39 for aesthetic reasons.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Workflow: Adjustment Layer or Custom Settings ? 16:9 Footage to 2.35:1 Output 01 Dec 2018 08:03 #98031

  • Smesh
  • Smesh's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 0
I didn't realize you could that in the browser. Great tip. Thanks.
The administrator has disabled public write access.