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TOPIC: How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project?

How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 25 Apr 2018 07:01 #95294

  • pszilard
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Well we are all the same boat, but I try to find a workflow rather than just feel upset.

Ripple training has good tutorials explaining how if you create a camera archive then you can choose only to import the segment that you use. I also use Final Cut Library Manager to reduce bulk. If you have a 2 year long project then basically you either allocate the HDD space, or wear the time to re create, maybe over-night exports?

I use a Promise Pegasus TB box for Libraries and current projects and store archived media on a slower Synology NAS. But that's just me. Hard drives are no longer that expensive, you can get a USB3 SATA cradle and buy a dedicated disk for the big project, and when not required just unmount it and stick in the cupboard.

Just some ideas...
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 25 Apr 2018 07:53 #95295

  • tj7
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I also use a Promise Pegasus setup.
I have HD's coming out of my ears, no probs there.
I *am* trying to find workflow solutions.
Thanks for reading and contribiting, though, and hopefully logic will prevail as far as a future update of FCPX goes.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 04 Jun 2018 05:06 #95808

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Just learned the hard way that this process (see my "outcome" posts here) leads to FCPX placing everything used in a project into the "ORIGINAL MEDIA" folder rather than retaining my preference for all media files to REMAIN IN THEIR ORIGINAL LOCATION.

Bloody hell.

This actually gets worse and worse.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 04 Jun 2018 05:16 #95810

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It is nigh middle of the year, another snooze announcement from the mothership in less than 12 hours...And still FCPX is broken...It is not that hard to see what needs to be fixed...

I agree that the number 1 issue is data management, how to delete once ingested...This makes sense...and I see the reason to feel the need to ingest 100% and reduce later..after all to reject a clip/range you use the DELETE key...epic fail on part of the dev team there...almost a sick joke!!

Does anyone have a sensible solution...the ripple twins are strangely silent on this topic, this aspect of FCPX is not covered in any tutorial I am aware of...maybe I missed something.

The only viable solution for data management is the Felipe Baez method, to compress the heck out of the material, mind you, you will need two copies of the data, 1 at 100% unproxied and 1 proxy file version...

In trumpland where data storage is cheaper than loo rolls, maybe, here data storage is super expensive, sub compact cars are cheaper than a couple of TB drives....What do we do???

This is a serious issue the mothership is not taking seriously at all... :angry:
Last Edit: 04 Jun 2018 05:17 by MsJustine.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 02:58 #96092

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It's unbelievable that this basic functionality isn't provided and that it's not even formally acknowledged as an issue. I remain gobsmacked that after taking the measures described throughout this thread - workarounds for the most basic function having been inexplicably left out - the software went and copied and relinked all media files to the "original media" folder, thus wasting HD space (and creating more work - when I choose "reveal in finder", instead of being linked to the file in the location I want to find it in so I can keep myself organised, I now magically get linked to a copy of the f__king thing in the "original media" folder WHICH IS NOT WHAT I FREAKING TOLD FCPX TO DO) - requiring a further cleanup - and I can literally see right in front of me my preference for all media to stay in its original god damned mother f__ing location has been checked, never unchecked, and yet this thing evidently has a mind of its own. Furious.
Last Edit: 26 Jun 2018 05:13 by tj7.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 03:19 #96094

  • Tom Wolsky
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This is a user to user forum. Shouting at us doesn't do anything. I assume you've used feedback.
Last Edit: 26 Jun 2018 03:19 by Tom Wolsky.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 04:40 #96096

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I have a question...what is meant by the question.." How do you tell FCPX to find and delete completely unused media from a project?? I assume this is garbage media we generate during a shoot, that during the 1st pass we range and delete, then select hide rejected.

I read the post and I don't think he is shouting, he is expressing a view that is very valid, this is a mature product, with a long history, and certain aspects are not being addressed.

I totally 100% agree that you should be able to after the 42nd update be able to ingest, pre-edit, then delete the garbage you no longer need, that hide rejected while once a valid workflow back in the first dozen updates, is no longer a valid method, it should be has the key says, DELETE... This is a 64 bit app, or so we are told, so if you are 64bit behave like a 64bit and do what 64bit do...

Not everyone has aquariums full of jellyfishes, or 20 yobabytes of data...We ingest, we skim, we range, we decide x is garbage, it should be destroyed to save space...why not after 42 updates this happens???
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 05:01 #96098

tj7 wrote:
It's unbelievable that this basic functionality isn't provided and that it's not even formally acknowledged as an issue. …

<wearing the Apple hat>
'cause that contradicts its very basic concept?

to elaborate… imagine you're able to trash 'unwanted' material while your project is already in timeline, and you then decide to prolong a simple dissolve => no 'beef', no handles, not possible, red end - what an outcry "FC doesn't support even the most fundamental function!" … hm?

<unwearing Apple hat>
by concept, you should make up your mind before import what you need, what not… and to add a grain of grumpyness, "hey, a TB of storage cost 40-50 bucks" ;)
Last Edit: 26 Jun 2018 05:02 by Karsten Schlüter.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 05:14 #96099

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Maybe in the USA yes data storage is cheap, here data storage is expensive, very...1 TB is about 1/2 my rent for the month..

You ingest, you pre-edit, that is edit in the browser, you range and select, group, decide this is good, this is garbage, hence the "reject" button, you reject, you discard, you see that range has having no value.

Every workflow is different, and it should be an option, possibly set in preference, a tick next do "Delete from Hard drive" or "Reject Clip" for the delete key...

What is wrong with ingesting, look you ingest day 1 then start sorting, and then more material arrives, buying more drives might not work, deleting/destroying garbage video/audio should be an option after 42 updates...

What hide rejected does is tell the database, clip range x to y, create subclip, do not display...the next logical advancement of the app is to actually put into action, not just hide, but actually send to the trashcan...

I cannot see a problem with that method, we have all had portions of clips, that will be unused, they are just garbage, look in the classic version if you used log and transfer, not the tape transport, but for drives, you could import a portion of a clip, say off a xd card, you had the option to skim, and import a "sub clip' so to speak...you performed a form of pre editing at that point..

This is really no different, you ingest 100% and reduce to the 20% of actual media that the project needs..If you need more then if you have saved the required media, you re-ingest, if not, then plan b it...

Apple should not be dictating how I manage media, I don't get the fuss..what is wrong with full ingest them trim and delete to trash...
Last Edit: 26 Jun 2018 05:15 by MsJustine.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 05:18 #96100

  • tj7
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Karsten Schlüter wrote:

by concept, you should make up your mind before import what you need, what not… and to add a grain of grumpyness, "hey, a TB of storage cost 40-50 bucks" ;)

That point has been raised and responded to already on the first page of this thread.

Additionally:

Look at a film like Julien Temple's "the Filth and the Fury" which draws from numerous other sources in a collage sort of way. This is similar to my project. Therefore it is simply not realistic to expect that the film maker can be 100% certain 100% of the time of how well a piece of footage is going to work before actually seeing it all put together with score and editing. Additionally, with this kind of "collage" or "time capsule" project, it is literally impossible to know at the time of editing whether or not a piece of footage is going to be able to go into the final product for licensing and rights reasons.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 05:28 #96101

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Karesten..."by concept, you should make up your mind before import what you need, what not… "

I disagree 100% that you should know before...this is a new way of thinking, a new form of editing, editing in the browser, being able to create "sub clips" into many different folders, create a proxy version...

You the user after 42 updates of a 64bit [apparently] app it should be up to you to have options, as I suggested, log and transfer from classical fcp, that is an option, I have suggested this before, and I see no issues with it, it solves many issues raised in this thread...

The delete/reject key, it needs to mature into a dual function, hide rejected partly solves the problem, sure it tidies up the browser, you see only that what you have already judged useful, so surely if you have already made that editing decision, this is garbage/rejected...then free up space on a drive/internal SSD, why keep it...

If you later need it, then that is the beauty of editing, you Plan B it....we are all big boys and big girls, capable of making decisions like what is useful from garbage, so why is Apple so concerned about this???
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 05:28 #96102

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Karsten Schlüter wrote:

to elaborate… imagine you're able to trash 'unwanted' material while your project is already in timeline, and you then decide to prolong a simple dissolve => no 'beef', no handles, not possible, red end - what an outcry "FC doesn't support even the most fundamental function!" … hm?

I'm not even sure how this fits with the point as expressed in the OP.

FCPX does not provide for a way of identifying and removing unused media.

Again:

Evidently you can tell the browser to show only "Unused" media -
however, this is a lie because as this thread illustrates:

www.fcp.co/forum/4-final-cut-pro-x-fcpx/...showing-unused-clips

Selecting "unused" actually pulls up clips which ARE partially used, the application presuming that a user would have no conceivable reason for wanting to keep partially used clips whilst deleting completely unused clips.

I'm also aware of the show "used media ranges" function, but this does not solve the primary, basic issue - how do you tell FCPX to *only display completely unused media* for a one step clean-up process?

Emphasis:

*One-step clean up process*. It doesn't exist, as illustrated by this thread.

The process of copying an entire library etc (please see previous posts in this thread) precipitates FCPX making yet another decision for the user, contrary to what the user has actually told FCPX not to do, which is once that library copy process is complete, suddenly all media has been placed into the "original media" folder and is no longer linked directly to the original storage location (ie the "leave files in their original location" option). I've already explained this above.

It does not seem unreasonable to ask that FCPX not only show unused ranges, but actually show totally unused media and then let you delete this media all at once. Evidently I am in the minority here, or I may well be quite literally the only FCPX user in the world who lacks the capacity to be 100% certain 100% of the time that imported media will be used in a project 100% of the time, and therefore may be the only FCPX user in the world with a reason to want to select all totally (not partially) unused media which has accumulated over time and delete it in one step. That being the case, it would be unreasonable of me to expect that a "delete all completely unused media" option, such as that which you might find in audio editing software such as Pro Tools, be provided. Foolish, even!

On the subject of Pro Tools - and the fact that in multitrack sessions you absolutely can tell the application to detect and erase all unused audio from a session in one step - if we presume, as Karsten here seems to, that a creator always knows exactly where and how a media file is going to be used and therefore there is no need for a universal delete-unused function, this means that either Pro Tools has a function which is totally unnecessary or that somehow, a key difference between audio and video editing is that video editors should always know 100% of the time where 100% of their media is going to be used with zero chance that it will wind up being cut from the final edit, therefore eliminating any chance of accumulation of unused media, whereas audio editors have a deficit in their ability to foresee the future and are known to accumulate unused media.

Facetiousness aside, if multitrack audio editing has a "universal delete all unused" function, it does seem logical that the same function be found in a video editing application. Both principally function to a similar end: The creation of a final product built from media components.
Last Edit: 26 Jun 2018 05:37 by tj7.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 05:45 #96103

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and a +1 to MsJustine

Karsten's insistence that video editors have the power of 100% foresight also fails to consider
experimentation. Has Karsten never come up with an idea on the fly, built a new compound clip or animation,
loved it, worked with it over several edits and then decided to change it or remove it all together? These compound clips etc can build up over time and they all take up space.... and FCPX will not let us select them all at once and remove them. The only way is to do so manually one by one. Too bad if you are working on a long term project which has to evolve based upon the demands of the client.
There's a fatal presumption at work here.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 05:53 #96104

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Realistically, I see different scenarios here.
1) I imported 200 clips but only used 100. - Command + Delete will delete unused (selected) clips
2) I've imported a 2hr clip, but only used 1 minute of it. FCP will not trim the original so you can delete unused parts of a clip. You can however export a master file of what you created and delete the source, and optionally re-import the master file
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 06:01 #96105

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That is the issue for many point 2...or a variance of point 2...

You ingest a series of clips, and in each of those clips, the head and tail are garbage, director shouting take, and the camera bumps at the end...garbage, you ingest as it easier to ingest all 200 clips, you range through each clip, you hit the delete key marking the range on that clip as reject....

What is wrong with step 2 of that..actually sending to trash, so that if you want, you can then delete 100% by emptying the trashcan, or moving to a new location???

All I am saying is that FCPX is a mature project now, 42 updates, and simple media management is a problem, folks face it, clip sizes are never going to shrink, we are soon going to be using 10K clips, you think a TB drive is going to last?? You will be needing a minimum of a 100TB drive...

So we need a way to wrangle the data, either in app, or external, log and transfer, something, to keep the data costs down, RED cards/P2 cards are expensive in of itself, this is a concern to everyone, the idea of ingest, skim, reject delete is obvious and necessary....
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 11:20 #96114

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"RED cards/P2 cards are expensive"

That has nothing to do with specifying a range when importing. Once you import, doesn't matter what or how, those cards get reformatted and used again. What/how you import doesn't affect them at all.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 11:51 #96115

  • joema
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tj7 wrote:
It's unbelievable that this basic functionality isn't provided and that it's not even formally acknowledged as an issue.... I remain gobsmacked that... the software went and copied and relinked all media files to the "original media" folder, thus wasting HD space (and creating more work - when I choose "reveal in finder", instead of being linked to the file in the location I want to find it in so I can keep myself organised...

I recently finished editing a documentary that used 230 hr of 4k H264 video, comprising 8,500 clips and 20 terabytes, mostly in a single library and using external (ie non-managed) media. The final product was 21.6 minutes, so the shooting ratio was 688:1.

To archive the project and used media, I simply copied the project within FCPX to a separate archive library. This also copies all media files used in the project, about 1.74 terabytes in this case. If this library is located on the same disk volume, the copy happens quickly since little data is actually moved. It also does not take up more space since the original and new files are hard linked to a single physical on-disk version. If you copy that to another volume, only then will the space will then be required.

Anyone can verify this by checking the volume space before and after copying the project. It will not increase, even though the archive library may show lots of space consumed. This can also be verified using the terminal commands ls -l which shows the reference count of the media file and ls -i which shows the inode number -- there is only one physical file occupying space on the volume, even if it appears as two files in Finder.

In our documentary workflow, we never delete any material since we might need that in the future. However if you're confident you won't need the extra non-used material, you can delete it by first copying the project(s) to another library on the same disk volume, consolidating, then deleting the original media files.

When the project is copied to another library, the media will be copied to the location you state. By default that is inside the library, but you can change the destination library properties to put the media in a different location outside the library. Remember -- if on the same volume, these media files are not really space-consuming additional copies, but hard links to the original files.

It is true that whether you tell FCPX to put those copied media files in the library or outside the library, they will have a different folder structure than the original ones. E.g, your original folder structure might be shooting location>shooting day>camera name>filename. But the copied folder structure will be Event Name>filename. If your camera files are not unique, FCPX will append a "uniqueifier" such as (fcp1), (fcp2), etc.

If you are accustomed to organizing media as a hierarchy of disk folders, this can be disconcerting. However FCPX is designed to organize it using metadata within FCPX. If you need that folder information it can be imported and searched as metadata, then it's always available in FCPX no matter what the disk folder structure looks like.

E.g, if your original folder structure is as I described above, you simply import with the FCPX preference "Assign keywords from folders". Thereafter if you want to see the clips shot at a certain site on a certain production day by a certain camera, you just query that in FCPX. Before import that info was represented in the folder structure, but after import it's stored in FCPX metadata.

Another useful method is renaming your camera files to be totally unique across the entire effort. This makes them easier to reference plus avoids a FCPX bug if exporting and importing XML. It also avoids FCPX adding the uniqueifier suffix, so your filenames will remain the same even if copied within FCPX to another library. To achieve this we use A Better Finder Rename, and add a unique serial number to each clip: www.publicspace.net/ABetterFinderRename/

I agree there are some aspects of FCPX media management that could be improved, especially involving proxies and management of a proxy-only workflow. I see how the ability to directly delete unused media files might be useful. However when I edited one of the largest field documentaries ever done on FCPX, that was not in my list of top 20 issues.
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 12:03 #96116

  • MsJustine
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FCPX Guru on one point yes it matters nothing, you ingest, the card can reused, but to finish the point you failed to do, is given what Karsten suggested, you import only a portion of a video clip, and you need a few extra frames and now you cannot as the card has been reused...

The point I was making is that cards, hard drives, media for storage are no longer cheap, they are expensive, require in many cases complex set ups, for example jellyfish, Raids, etc, gone are the days of shoot, ingest, file on a shelf, in a shoe box, buy media from Dollar General, 2 tapes for $1...

Everyone, from snottywood, to channel 99 in Deadhorse, is going to reach the same critical situation, it matters none that you are a single filmmaker or a farmyard full, your critical mass is storage, and what to do, how to deal with A-dailies, and B-post edit archive...

Sure point B is not actually under discussion per se, but a project is a project until you no longer have a single frame of that project on any device, as long as you have control of 1 frame of 1 trillion frames, you will have issues going forward...

What is missed is that the rate of clip size growth and the inability of NLE to handle this is the real issue, wrapped in a question...What is Apple going to do with this growth in clip size? The number of drives really is pointless, it slows down the system, the more data, the longer the OS has to take to manage all that data , so a way to reduce overhead costs, by actually destroying data is a good thing.

Actually we have completed the circle so to speak, back in the early days of film, you were limited to the amount of film stock, the number of feet per roll, and each roll of film was not cheap...Along came mini dv and wow, you could shoot decades of material for a cost of a starbucks coffee and you could buy this material anywhere...

No people wanted instant access, and what we have today is the result, we have instant access, and the cost is space, we can only shoot so many seconds per RED/P2 card..and sorry can you buy a RED card at DG??

The original question was find and delete unused, [assume unwanted/garbage] media from a project, and the answer is no, and that is the point, the answer should be YES...

20TB sitting around on drives basically doing nothing is a waste of a resource...and that is just the point, how much of that 20TB is actually garbage? that has zero value, not in a re-edit, not in a funnies reel, that is just pure garbage? Garbage generation is expected in every shoot...So why not ingest, sift through, keyword, and have the ability to delete to the trashcan the garbage and when you are done, release a few TB? You might be able to afford the costs of long term dormant storage...

Something has been missed, that is all....having worked with how many formats, from umatic to betacam, to dvcpro to p2, to RED, sometimes the old days were better... :whistle:
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 16:40 #96119

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Hi tj7
I feel that your question has been answered by Joema on how to copy/consolidate projects and then to delete unused media. Very fast and not too difficult.
You raised an additional issue in which you state that after doing so, share (export) is very slow. I wonder if this is do to the way you have "replaced" your original libraries/project files?? Sounds like you may have been doing this manually in the Finder? If you work outside of FCPX and do things in Finder, it may slow down FCPX and you may have created additional processes for the computer as it attempts to locate files. Just guessing here.

There are other things that could help to speed up FCPX share. After doing your copying projects and deleting old versions, make sure to quit FCPX and it might also help to fully shutdown and reboot the computer. This process actually forces the OS to clean up some files.
You can delete preferences for FCPX by holding down the "Option" key while launching.
You can delete the rendered and proxies files. They may or may not be rebuilt but FCPX will create new files during export and this may take longer.

Your file size response doesn't make sense to me(??) First you show reduction, then not.

As to the original question, there have also been suggestions of additional 3rd party apps, and the export of a master file, all of which will reduce the total project size.

I for one, am glad that Apple makes it hard to delete unused media as I have deleted accidentally media I later needed. Hooray for the "Nanny State". Thankfully, I make back-ups to additional external drives upon transferring from camera cards. I do a direct Finder copy then import to FCPX.

So everyone has different needs and wishes. Feel free to file a feature request. Yes Apple does indeed read them all.

MsJ
So your rent is only ~R1300/month?
Looking @ currency exchange rates, then at South African computer sales sites, a 1TB external drive goes for between R600.00 to R900 including VAT. That's $45.00-$66.00 dollars US which is around the same price I pay here in the U.S. Wish my rent was so cheap! 4TB external hdd for around R1850/$140.00USD including VAT. So why are you saying drives are so expensive in SA?
64 bit OS or app coding has absolutely nothing to do with being able to delete files or not. Wish you understood anything about programming.
By my count, FCPX has had 26 revisions, not 42. Still pretty remarkable that I only paid $299.00USD way back when.

Hope this Helps, Greg
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How do you tell FCPX to find and delete (COMPLETELY) unused media from a project? 26 Jun 2018 16:58 #96120

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I wish my rent was R1400, that is my internet costs, my rent is closer to R5000 a month for a room the size of a small double garage, as it is above a double garage..I read it as 1/4. Sorry about that...My mistake, part of my learning disability, I see what I think, and not what I intend...Only later I sometimes see the error...

Yeah, the crappy slow drives are under R1k, and they are like toilet paper, use once and throw away...anything good is at least twice that...nothing is cheap here...And we don't have a proper Apple, just one of those resellers...Welcome to Africa...

Alex3D said 32, I forgot to check, I new there was a 2 in the number...Alex claims 32 updates, he is pretty accurate in the posts he makes...anyway, it is more than Final Cut 7 had...that only had 3!!!!

The point is, we are heading into something that will affect everyone, and I have seen it become a problem, hard drives, are a problem, they crash, they fail, and the time and effort to maintain is expensive, so anything that keeps data costs down should be a no brainer...

There can be nothing wrong with doing a full ingest, and a sort and purge of garbage material...What is wrong with that? I have sent feedbacks a number of times, so far, 26, 32 or more than 3 updates, data management it seems is low on the totem pole of priorities...I get subtitles, and 3D, I get the better color grade system, yay..but 360 ahead of proxy workflow and data management speaks of a skew line of logic...This is just my opinion...
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