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TOPIC: Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E

Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 02 Sep 2017 10:46 #90274

  • casimir_artmann
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Hedge is to copy files with checksum from card to disks, to avoid lost footage and speed up process. Much more reliable than file copy in OS/X.

Sync-and-link/X is roughly $200. Compared to cost for sound equipment, camera equipment and captures, is not that much. A days to footage from two cameras is ready to view in 90 minutes from receiving card to first assembly edit.

Bought a special iPad to BNC cable and iPad to Tentacle cable from PinkNoise in UK to sync with Zoom F8 or Tentacle . Tried cheaper cables that didn't work.

Zoom F8 time drifts if power off, so you have to re-sync of switching batteries or cycle power. Re-sync after each meal works fine for us.

We also use roles from Zoom F8 as we had 20 different actors though the scenes.
Last Edit: 02 Sep 2017 10:51 by casimir_artmann.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 02 Sep 2017 11:05 #90275

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Sorry for being a dummy, but does "Hedge" refer to a particular app that copies with checksum, or just a name given to a process?

Just watched the Sync-n-Link video. Awesome! Gotta to buy it! :lol:

Looked up PinkNoise and found reference to MovieSlate app on iPad. Is that what you use too?

I've read about F8 TC drift if turned off - is this true even when power supply is continued to be connected? Also if TC is set to RTC? I have been using the F8 TC set to RTC and jam-sync it to a C300 . The F8 was powered from a V-Lock battery, which was kept connected, but for the sake of safety, we re-jammed the setup after our lunch break. Was this absolutely necessary with RTC?
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 02 Sep 2017 16:56 #90282

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Hedge is a Mac application that I bought last winter.

We used the MovieSlate app on an iPad. Set metadata for a scene on set for a scripted story - www.artmann.co.uk/quality/production/set...for-a-scripted-story

Beware, MovieSlate uses a lot of battery as its running all the time. Have an extra battery pack as backup power if shooting for a full day.

No issues with Zoom F8 with drift as long as powered on with external battery pack.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 05 Sep 2017 02:53 #90309

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I believe that Tentacle Sync Studio software (license included with every TS hardware) can perform the same function as Sync-n-Link. It also additional functionality and is slightly less expensive, unless you bought their h/w, in which case it is free!

I am investigating this further, just to confirm.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 07 Dec 2017 21:58 #92142

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We're interested in getting some Tentacle Sync Es now that their coming out. However, can someone please confirm/answer the following questions below. I have been unable to get a solid answer from YouTubers demoing the devices nor the company which said they were going to put together an FCP X workflow video 7 months ago. They actually emailed me today explaining that development of the Tentacle Sync E delayed that video tutorial.

Questions:
  1. Will the tentacle sync software batch process all camera angles and audio and then generate individual multicam and/or synchronized clips for FCP X as actual clips in the browser not a timeline of synced clips?
  2. Will metadata be maintained?
  3. Will the channels in polyphonic channels be maintained?
  4. If clips can be generated for FCP X, does FCP X recognize these clips as multicam or synchronized if you create a smart filter for it; being that the syncing was not done in FCP X?
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 07 Dec 2017 22:05 #92143

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You can download Tentacle Sync Studio and get a free evaluation code (I think it is for 14 days) and then you can run your own tests.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 07 Dec 2017 22:12 #92144

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Right. I did that with the intent of renting some tentacles, but the shoot fell through and we never got the tentacles before the trial period ended. It would be great if someone can answer or provide insight into the questions.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 08 Dec 2017 08:40 #92155

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My experience with Tentacle Sync Studio workflow with FCP/X is that I prefer to only add timecode to each clip in batch for each card. Instead, I use multicam sync in FCP/X for those circled takes and link audio instead of multicam with Sync-n-link.

Haven't tried other/new features in Sync Studio for a few months, so with reservations for additional development after version 1.11.

See links to our workflow in the previous answers.
Last Edit: 08 Dec 2017 11:41 by casimir_artmann.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 08 Dec 2017 17:32 #92158

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Forgive me, but I a having a hard time understanding your response. Are you saying that you do not use the tentacle Sync software for creating multicam clips and if so, why or why not? Is it that Tentacle Sync Studio is incapable?
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 08 Dec 2017 23:17 #92171

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This is our use-case for for time code and Tentacle Sync Studio does not support this very well, at least not to my knowledge. Therefore, we are not using TSS for creating multi-cam clips.

"We used two Tentacle sync units to videocameras via XLR-inputs, a Zoom F8 for sound recording and an iPad Movie Slate with time code for shooting seven shorts this spring."

Our workflow is as described here: www.artmann.co.uk/quality/production/upd...ync-media-with-fcpx/

Multi-clip are then created in FCP/X using normal functionality and using time code instead of sound.

If using two cameras with timecode for continuous interviews, without retake, no separate sound and not slate, TTS may work better.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 30 Jan 2018 18:47 #93790

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OK folks so putting some things together as I am trying to find a solution that makes sense here's what I've come across speaking to the folks at Tentacle Sync, Intelligent Assistance, and other folks. Keep in mind that syncing is one thing. Generating individual clips is another and I think the latter gets lost when evaluating the efficiency of these devices with their coresponding apps and workflows.

The tentacles are great and I'd like the E version as well, but my gripe is that the Tentacle Studio software cannot batch generate synced clips for FCP X. A Tentacle Sync rep confirmed that you would have to send an XML for every synced group of clips. The benefit is only marginal then to audio syncing in FCP X which I can just sort and organize using FCP X's built in features and select my clips to sync.

Sync-N-Link is the gold standard I want in functionality - something that can batch sync and generate individual synced (including multicam) clips in the browser for FCP X. I have yet to find any software that does that well. Not Tentacle Studio, not PluralEyes, not DaVinci Resolve...while maintaining the metadata (which Plural Eyes 4 doesn't). However it cannot read LTC timecode embedded in the audio.

We would need a bridge between the audio LTC timecode the Tentacle Sync or (similar devices) create and being able to batch sync and generate clips.

What I am not looking for is an app that gives me a timeline of all of my synced clips. That does me no good.

What I want is to be able to batch sync AND batch generate clips for FCP X from the batch synced process WHILE maintaining metadata and without replacing the camera audio. I know that's a mouthful, but it's a sentence that embodies many of the shortcoming of so many NLE and syncing apps I've tested.

Enter VideoTools LTC Convert. This app will take the audio LTC timecode and can (among other things) replace the free run timecode from the camera. As of writing this, I just discovered this this morning and have yet to test - still seeking answers from the developers.

Here's my thought to get what I want:

My workflow will essentially be Tentacles (or UltraSync One's) to C100s/ Sound Devices 633—>EditReady for rewrapping/custom naming—>batch Process shot video clips through LTC Convert—> All audio and video clips into FCP X, XML out to Sync-N-Link—>Voila! Batch Synced clips.

If Tentacle Sync Studio could batch generate clips for FCP X in one shot like Sync-N-Link than this wouldn't be an issue, but it can't so as I stated before, it's syncing feature benefits are marginal to the time saving gap I am looking for...and I am still waiting for their FCP X workflow video.
Last Edit: 30 Jan 2018 18:53 by tangierc.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 30 Jan 2018 21:41 #93791

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Tangierc - interesting post. Please continue your research. Also interested that you had been able to talk with Tentacle staff, as I had zero success, even though I was giving them something for nothing!

As I see it, TC is better than audio based sync when clip lengths from multicams may be short, as there may not be enough audio to get a perfect match between cameras. Typical scenario for me, could be a concert and have one camera on a locked tripod running continuously and a number of operators running around getting short grabs. TC will then allow me to create a multicam timeline with the grabs at the right spots. The problem is however the few frame slip due to the video signal processing adding delay.

I suggested to Tentacle that they add a feature to T Studio, so that after it has done a TC sync, it then check scratch sound and automatically adjust the few frame delay to give perfect sync! I didn't even get an acknowledgment!. Not sure if I am going to buy any more Tentacle Syn products.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 30 Jan 2018 22:00 #93792

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You made me realize one very important point I did not mention. I am doing episodic narratives. I realized this when you mentioned doing concerts. A timeline of synced clips may be more acceptable in that scenario. I agree that timecode syncing is better. I just can't believe the notion of spending money on devices then using the app, and I still have to isolate groups of synced clips just to send them to my NLE - not when something like Sync-N-Link exists. So this is why I say the benefit is marginal.

Speaking (by email with a Tentacle Sync rep off and on for months has had it's challenges. For one an FCP X workflow was mentioned in one of their tutorial videos on youtube to be released a long time ago. That has yet happened. Additionally it's been really challenging to get concrete information on an FCP X workflow when you don't have the units in hand to test as I don't; with no guarantee that if I rented them would the owner give me the app license. I asked if they could at least provide some free test footage on their site to use with their app during the trial period.

Here's a quote directly from one of my Tentacle Sync communications regarding what I am trying to do with Cam A, Cam B, and audio:

Me to Tentacle Sync:
"So in essence can it do this (for example)?
Five takes from a two camera shoot on 3 cards (Camera A, Camera B, and Audio) = 15 clips total to import into Tentacle Sync Studio
Import clips into Tentacle Sync Studio, it batch processes all of the clips and manages to isolate the five syncable groups of clips.
Export XML (one time) and import to FCP X
In FCP X five multicam clips will be available."

Tentacle Sync Response:
..."you can batch import all three devices and it will separate them into 3 groups and shows them as different tracks in the sync map, but when you export it will be a synced sequence. If you want each take containing the footage of Cam A/B and Audio, you'd have to sync them separately in Sync Studio and export each take for FCPX."

I may as well just sort by creation date, select them and sync by audio waveform as I have been up until this point.

Just started looking into UltraSync One devices today by the way. Their video shows Adobe Premiere in use for syncing the same why I sync in FCP X except with audio. The whole point of my endeavor is to greatly increase my syncing efficiency to the level of something like Sync-N-Link. It fascinates me that other tools don't seem to do this. Perhaps it's a shortcoming of FCP X that prevents this, I don't know.
Last Edit: 30 Jan 2018 22:01 by tangierc.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 31 Jan 2018 00:32 #93793

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Do you have Tentacle Studio? I do, so if it helps you can DropBox/Google Drive me sample tracks and I'll try to do what you suggested.

I thought it could do it, actually. I only have a single TS device, plus a Zoom F8 recorder for sound (which has TC. But I also have a Shogun video recorder, so perhaps I can jam syn from the Shogun to the Zoom F8, and then stick the TS on a 2nd camera for a test. My problem is that I can't spare the time at the moment. Hence the suggestion for you to send me some sample files.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 07 Feb 2018 03:19 #93969

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I finally got my hands on some Tentacle Sync units. The Tentacle Sync Studio desktop app is capable of generating individual synced clips in FCP X using one exported XML and one multicam clip which can contain all of the takes, shots, etc. where there are multiple angles.

It cannot generate (unless I missed a setting) multiple individual multicam clips for FCP X from one XML export the same way it generates multiple individual synced clips. That's the feature I really need. So now I am back to having to figure out a way to get content prepped for Sync-N-Link and that bridge would be VideoToollShed's LTC Converter. Only downside is that the interface is not so great and it doesn't seem to be designed to take advantage of modern OS X core frameworks and technologies.

If anyone knows of counterparts to LTC Converter let me know, but it will get the job done.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 25 Feb 2018 05:16 #94320

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Dear Tangierc,

Please see my post HERE. I think that it is closely related to this discussion and that you may be able to help.

I visited VideoToolshed, and downloaded their demos, but my lack of experience means that I get lost between the various acronyms, such as QTchange and LTC. (Sorry for being a dummy).

To overcome my TC link situation, I basically need to re-write all WAV file TC by increasing the TC by +3, in a batch, before putting them into FCPX to create synced clips with the videos.

Do I need QTchange or LTCconvert for this? Or have I got this totally wrong?

Thanks...
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 25 Feb 2018 16:12 #94326

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Doing a quick look at the products I would say QTChnage would be the one. LTC Convert is for converting the timecode in an audio channel and making the actual timecode of the video clips instead of the timecode written by the camera. Just to be sure I would email VideoToolShed support. I did the same thing.

We ended up buying LTC convert for out Tentacle Sync workflow and it's been great.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 25 Feb 2018 16:35 #94327

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QTChange might be the wrong tool as well.
It changes the QT TC track, but WAV doesn't have one.
You can wrap a WAV into a QT container with TC track.
But you can also re-write the BEXT header of the WAV to change the timestamp - that's what normally should be done here.
Wave Agent will do, but not with batch processing.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 25 Feb 2018 17:08 #94330

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That's right! I forgot about that ability in WaveAgent.
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Ambient NanoLockit vs Tentacle Sync E 25 Feb 2018 21:27 #94335

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If you have Tentacle, you would have Tentacle Sync Studio included. Did you feel that buying LTCconvert gave you extra features?
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